A Viewer's Version, Another side of the story Options

[Clay]

Country Bumpkin,
I believe Clay was having some fun with the "Disclaimer" at the end of Seeshell's post. Please go back and read what she has written there. I am not Clay but I'd just bet my ranch (if I had one) that it was just for fun.

yeah i was messin with her......

[seeshell]

then again as you have stated.... you are ummm blonde.....

And proud of it! Oh yeah!

P.S. Please be nice. Seeshell’s comments had nothing to do with her hair color and to judge her by her picture is totally unfair. Someone might accuse you of insensitivity, like, hummm… Danny, maybe?

Thanks, Country. It was sweet of you to stick up for me. Some of these folks around here...well, I just despair!

[inga]

I also reminded her that the tares and the wheat grow together until God does the reaping. If Danny is a tare <snip>

The parable is about tares and wheat, not thistles and wheat, and that's significant. Tares could not be distinguished from the wheat until harvest time. They looked alike, and that's why it would be dangerous to try to pull up the tares ... Thistles, on the other hand, are easily distinguised fromt the wheat and need to be dealt with. (As a gardener, I can vouch for that!!) Paul makes clear that it is the church's job to discipline its members in the case of open sin.

There are some pretty "open" sins in the case of Danny Shelton. His quick divorce and subsequent marriage without biblical grounds are matters of public record. So is his trashing of Linda, which continues to this day, often with references that only those aware of the problem "get." Some of his misuse of funds donated to 3ABN is also a matter of record, and it is evident that this is but the tip of the iceberg.

There's a time to keep silent and a time to speak up and act. Many folks who knew of irregularities at 3ABN for years have kept silent until recently. Seeing that things only got worse, not better, they came to the conclusion that it is time to speak up and act. You can find their testimonies on this board ...

[inga]

So, in my opinion, his [Danny's] reaction is not an uncommon occurrence. The fact that it is so open and in public is what makes this situation so discouraging.

CB, I think you do have a point in that the TV "stardom" went to Danny & Linda's heads, not just Danny's. However, the troubles with Danny go much further than his relationship and trashing of Linda. Even if it were only that, his continual skewing of topics to exonerate himself and blame Linda makes him unfit to speak as a Christian in front of a world-wide audience.

The problems with Danny involve misuse of funds entrusted to him and a general attitude of thinking it's okay for him to spend freely (not just for the ministry but also for his own pleasure) the money given to 3ABN through sacrifice.

The problems with Danny involve the way he treats current and former employees. It's hardly the way of Christ to live in comparative luxury while employees live in substandard housing and depend on government assistance to make ends meet.

That's the tip of the iceberg ...

[Reflection]

The parable is about tares and wheat, not thistles and wheat, and that's significant. Tares could not be distinguished from the wheat until harvest time. They looked alike, and that's why it would be dangerous to try to pull up the tares ... Thistles, on the other hand, are easily distinguised fromt the wheat and need to be dealt with. (As a gardener, I can vouch for that!!) Paul makes clear that it is the church's job to discipline its members in the case of open sin.

There are some pretty "open" sins in the case of Danny Shelton. His quick divorce and subsequent marriage without biblical grounds are matters of public record. So is his trashing of Linda, which continues to this day, often with references that only those aware of the problem "get." Some of his misuse of funds donated to 3ABN is also a matter of record, and it is evident that this is but the tip of the iceberg.

There's a time to keep silent and a time to speak up and act. Many folks who knew of irregularities at 3ABN for years have kept silent until recently. Seeing that things only got worse, not better, they came to the conclusion that it is time to speak up and act. You can find their testimonies on this board ...

Hi Inga: I don't think the quote about wheat and tares was me??? I may have responded to someone else and then commented, maybe peacefully bewildered? Not sure. I'll go check now! It's morning!

[Reflection]

The parable is about tares and wheat, not thistles and wheat, and that's significant. Tares could not be distinguished from the wheat until harvest time. They looked alike, and that's why it would be dangerous to try to pull up the tares ... Thistles, on the other hand, are easily distinguised fromt the wheat and need to be dealt with. (As a gardener, I can vouch for that!!) Paul makes clear that it is the church's job to discipline its members in the case of open sin.

There are some pretty "open" sins in the case of Danny Shelton. His quick divorce and subsequent marriage without biblical grounds are matters of public record. So is his trashing of Linda, which continues to this day, often with references that only those aware of the problem "get." Some of his misuse of funds donated to 3ABN is also a matter of record, and it is evident that this is but the tip of the iceberg.

There's a time to keep silent and a time to speak up and act. Many folks who knew of irregularities at 3ABN for years have kept silent until recently. Seeing that things only got worse, not better, they came to the conclusion that it is time to speak up and act. You can find their testimonies on this board ...

Okay I'm awake now ,. I see what happened. It's my newbieness, even though it says I'm a regular member. I've not figured out everything technical yet. I responded to PeacefullyBewildered, and wanted to separate the two quotes and respond separately to both. I couldn't figure out how to do that so I cut and pasted and highlighted the second quote with a bright blue, my response below it in the regular font color. Someone help me. How should I have done that so that the quotes end up in the same box? I mean the same response box, with the quotes in different boxes. I noticed that sometimes when I respond to more than one person one after another, the program does it automatically, but not always. Do I sound confused! I am!

[PeacefulBe]

The parable is about tares and wheat, not thistles and wheat, and that's significant.

Those who actually know him might be able to characterize him as a "thistle" but to the outside world at large he may look like a wheat with tare tendencies. Point taken, though.

There's a time to keep silent and a time to speak up and act. Many folks who knew of irregularities at 3ABN for years have kept silent until recently. Seeing that things only got worse, not better, they came to the conclusion that it is time to speak up and act. You can find their testimonies on this board ...

It would be helpful to list the posters who actually work or have worked there. I would give much more credence to the accounts of those who have first-hand experience with the situation there.

I know that Johann, Barbara Kerr, sister, papertigers and beartrap fit this category. Am I missing some?

The problems with Danny involve the way he treats current and former employees. It's hardly the way of Christ to live in comparative luxury while employees live in substandard housing and depend on government assistance to make ends meet.

That's the tip of the iceberg ...

This behavior smacks of another world-wide entity - the big box superstores. The big difference is that one should be not for profit, right?

Hi Inga: I don't think the quote about wheat and tares was me??? I may have responded to someone else and then commented, maybe peacefully bewildered? Not sure. I'll go check now! It's morning!

Yep, that was me.

[inga]

Okay I'm awake now ,. I see what happened. It's my newbieness, even though it says I'm a regular member. I've not figured out everything technical yet. I responded to PeacefullyBewildered, and wanted to separate the two quotes and respond separately to both. I couldn't figure out how to do that so I cut and pasted and highlighted the second quote with a bright blue, my response below it in the regular font color. Someone help me. How should I have done that so that the quotes end up in the same box? I mean the same response box, with the quotes in different boxes. I noticed that sometimes when I respond to more than one person one after another, the program does it automatically, but not always. Do I sound confused! I am!

If you remember that quotes begin and end with square brackets around the following:
quote
/quote
you can figure it out for yourself. (If I had included the brackets, this wouldn't show up.) You can also have quotes within quotes.

Those who actually know him might be able to characterize him as a "thistle" but to the outside world at large he may look like a wheat with tare tendencies. Point taken, though.
It would be helpful to list the posters who actually work or have worked there. I would give much more credence to the accounts of those who have first-hand experience with the situation there.

I know that Johann, Barbara Kerr, sister, papertigers and beartrap fit this category. Am I missing some?

The one that comes immediately to mind is husbandoftheyear who is currently still working at 3ABN. There are others as well. It would be helpful for them to respond here.
Though not fitting in this category, Fran should be taken seriously too, especially when she writes on financial topics. She's a forensic accountant who has examined the financial records of 3ABN which are publicly available.

This behavior smacks of another world-wide entity - the big box superstores. The big difference is that one should be not for profit, right?

I should think that a "ministry" for Christ should demonstrate different principles of behavior than purely for-profit entities. How about you?

[PeacefulBe]

The one that comes immediately to mind is husbandoftheyear who is currently still working at 3ABN. There are others as well. It would be helpful for them to respond here.
Though not fitting in this category, Fran should be taken seriously too, especially when she writes on financial topics. She's a forensic accountant who has examined the financial records of 3ABN which are publicly available.
I should think that a "ministry" for Christ should demonstrate different principles of behavior than purely for-profit entities. How about you?

Oh yes, I forgot seeing the husband is still there. I agree that Fran certainly is an expert in the financial area.

I think it is sad that either entity should treat employees this way and expect tax dollars to make up for what they should be doing. For a Christian ministry, it certainly is a taint on the character to follow such a worldly model.

[country bumpkin]

When I was a teenager, my mother decided to become a vegetarian. Eventually I said, “Sure, why not.” Then she decided to become a vegan, again I said, “Sure why not.” Then she said only whole grain foods, and I said, “Sure, why not.” Then she started saying you couldn’t eat foods with vinegar, and I said, “Well, Okay.”, But when she said, No spinach! I said “Whoa baby, Popeye does not lie!” And I decided I had to decide for myself what I was going to believe about diet, because you’ll end up in a mess if you believe everything that’s going around out there.

To me it’s the same with this Danny and Linda thing. You know I’ve thought about the accusations that Sister and her crew have posted on this site. When I first read them I got caught up in the saga and I believed everything I read. Then the story started getting too strange. Accusations of child molestations, implications that his first wife’s death was somehow his fault, I finally went “Whoa baby! Who are these people?” and had to sit back and think. I don’t know these people from Adam. How do I know that they just don’t have a vendetta against Danny? Since I’m not there, I don’t know who is telling the truth. I would not doubt that he may be spending more then he should, because you know Danny, he has to defend himself, and he has been defending his salary for years. But when he was doing that, it was during the “Linda years”. He didn’t do all of this misappropriation just in the last 2 ½ years, so if there is fault, we must make sure both are at fault.

But I do want to add something that is a little off subject. I started reading this book this morning about true heart conversion. The kind you read about in mission stories where people have the true love of Christ in their lives, the kind that makes you kind to your children and keeps you from getting angry when people malign you and go out of their way to antagonize you. And I thought, ‘Who do you know that has that kind of a true Christ filled life?’ No body in these United States! Everybody I know talks about it, wants it, but does not Know how to, or want to do what it takes to get it. Why is it that the poor convert from the highlands of Nepal can have a true heart conversion and surrender all of the heart to Christ, but we poor saps in the good ol’ US of A can’t? Is it because we are too sophisticated for that? Well, until we can surrender all, we are no better than Danny, or anyone else who is living in sin, because an un-surrendered heart is an un-surrendered heart. We will all loose out in the judgment. Now I will add that a person in a high profile position has the responsibility to live a life above reproach so as not to bring condemnation on the church and he has not done that, especially with this remarriage business, but in the long run, the sin God hates the most is pride, and we in the USA are full of it.

Country

[Clay]

snip.........
To me it’s the same with this Danny and Linda thing. You know I’ve thought about the accusations that Sister and her crew have posted on this site. When I first read them I got caught up in the saga and I believed everything I read. Then the story started getting too strange. Accusations of child molestations, implications that his first wife’s death was somehow his fault, I finally went “Whoa baby! Who are these people?” and had to sit back and think. I don’t know these people from Adam. How do I know that they just don’t have a vendetta against Danny? Since I’m not there, I don’t know who is telling the truth. I would not doubt that he may be spending more then he should, because you know Danny, he has to defend himself, and he has been defending his salary for years. But when he was doing that, it was during the “Linda years”. He didn’t do all of this misappropriation just in the last 2 ½ years, so if there is fault, we must make sure both are at fault.
snip..................

Country

If people were to share some of the dirty laundry that exists in their families I think you would be surprised at some of the things you would hear. You might her about murder plots, molestations, intent to do harm to people, etc..... so that does not surprise me....

There are 2 issues IMO. One, the divorce and the grounds for that divorce, and two, how 3abn operates and has treated its employees.....

My concern has always been that Mr. Shelton gave Linda the short end of the stick as far as the divorce was concerned AND then trashed her reputation after he got what he wanted.... His actions were wrong on every level.

As for 3ABN and how it operates, I think people tolerated some things because they felt a good work was being done. I don't understand how good people would stay in a miserable situation because they think 3abn was spreading the gospel, yet from the stories told, many did..... until they began to see the light.... I think now that their eyes have been opened they want others to see what they experienced.... of course, experience is subjective so that's what we have....

Maybe the picture would be different IF every employee shared their experience, but I don't see that happening....

[PeacefulBe]

SNIP
But when she said, No spinach! I said “Whoa baby, Popeye does not lie!” And I decided I had to decide for myself what I was going to believe about diet, because you’ll end up in a mess if you believe everything that’s going around out there.

To me it’s the same with this Danny and Linda thing. You know I’ve thought about the accusations that Sister and her crew have posted on this site. When I first read them I got caught up in the saga and I believed everything I read. Then the story started getting too strange. Accusations of child molestations, implications that his first wife’s death was somehow his fault, I finally went “Whoa baby! Who are these people?” and had to sit back and think. I don’t know these people from Adam. How do I know that they just don’t have a vendetta against Danny? Since I’m not there, I don’t know who is telling the truth.
SNIP

Country, your entire post was full of excellent insights! As observers we really don't know who's telling the truth or who is spinning an agenda.

People in other lands may have a more sincere conversion than many of those in this country because they have far fewer diversions that vie for their connection with God. My own personal opinion in this area is that the sin that God hates the most is ANY sin for it separates us from Him!

[Expression]

First of all, to say that no one in the US is converted is a rather broad statement. What does it mean to be converted? Everyone has their own picture, I suppose, but to say that no one in the US has a committed relationship with God was quite startling to me.

As far as the idea of sin and an un-surrendered heart…

To say, “Well, we’re all in the same boat” has been used countless times. Why is the idea so popular? Because it is an excuse. There is no excuse so appealing as one that is coated in “Christianity.” However an excuse is an excuse--regardless.

Secondly, there are degrees of sin. A child lying to his teacher is very different from a teacher raping a child. To say all sin is the same is not Biblical and is a far cry from logic.

We have professed the name of Jesus. As such we are to call sin by it’s right name. It’s not simply a choice, this is our responsibility.

In regard to the idea that as observers we really can’t know what’s going on, who’s running their own agenda, etc…

If we were really looking at the situation and understood what we were seeing we would have realized who was telling the truth. People have given first-hand accounts of Danny’s actions towards Linda and have stated that Linda was being abused. We can stand back and say, “Well, we don’t really know” or we can read the signs. Danny has given plenty of them if you know what to look for. For instance, he has played the victim (before the whole world), and put all the blame on Linda. Accounts such as Barbara’s have been given incredible weight because of Danny’s actions. It fits like a hand in a glove.

This post has been edited by Expression: Sep 7 2006, 04:33 PM

[sonshineonme]

To me it’s the same with this Danny and Linda thing. You know I’ve thought about the accusations that Sister and her crew have posted on this site. When I first read them I got caught up in the saga and I believed everything I read. Then the story started getting too strange. Accusations of child molestations, implications that his first wife’s death was somehow his fault, I finally went “Whoa baby! Who are these people?” and had to sit back and think. I don’t know these people from Adam. How do I know that they just don’t have a vendetta against Danny? Since I’m not there, I don’t know who is telling the truth. I would not doubt that he may be spending more then he should, because you know Danny, he has to defend himself, and he has been defending his salary for years. But when he was doing that, it was during the “Linda years”. He didn’t do all of this misappropriation just in the last 2 ½ years, so if there is fault, we must make sure both are at fault.

Country

I have some serious problems with your comments. Yes, you were not there. Nor was I. So, you can continue to hold onto those thoughts....but if you were a wiser person, you might consider that just because you start to discover some things that were "behind the scenes" you can just discard them. There are reasons and ways they have come out. They will be verifed eventually, more then just the "testimony" of people who have no real reason to tell lies at all about 3abn. Do you honestly think that people would waste their precious time here telling lies, their expirences, this handful just to bring down a network? Do you think they think so highly of themselves that they could actually do that? They have nothing to gain at all except liberty and unity of being through and going through the same things...aren't they fortunate they have a place to do that....many felt there was no one or place where others could also "download" and compare....you have forgotten the dynamics of how things are done at 3abn - YOU DON'T TALK. There are accounts, witness' and legal docs. Whether you decide to accept them is your choice, natually, but, use your head. You seem to grasp some of Danny's "ways" by watching him - his character in a large part does show through...add things up. Now, I can't blame you for what you don't know, all the other details that you don't have, but there are those that do have them and are taking care of things. But, keep your mind open. Don't assume so much, or simplify things so much....you go to great lengths to make sure "both get blame". Sure, there is blame on both sides, but the degrees and motives are very different. Keep that in mind too. And btw, if you are someone who is trying to coworse people to give up their identities, just in case you work for the "other side", because they are quite desperate right now, you can forget that. You underestimate these people very much. They have nothing more to lose.

[husbandoftheyear]

Oh yes, I forgot seeing the husband is still there. I agree that Fran certainly is an expert in the financial area.

How could you forget HOTY?