Letter To Calvin, "Boss" Means Accountability Options

[Aletheia]

the court determined that 3abn was NOT a nonprofit business.... there is definitely profit being made.... and spent....

That isn't correct.

The County court ruled that on a local level, 3ABN was not entitled to a religious exemption and had to pay local property taxes. This is being appealed.

3ABN is still a self sustaining ministy and a Not for profit business, the local court did not change that.

Nor to the best of my knowledge did that case change anything to do with the IRS on the federal level, or 3ABN's status or exemptions when filing the required federal tax forms..

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 5 2007, 10:01 AM

[Clay]

That isn't correct.

The County court ruled that on a local level, 3ABN was not entitled to a religious exemption and had to pay local property taxes. This is being appealed.

3ABN is still a self sustaining ministy and a Not for profit business, the local court did not change that.

Nor to the best of my knowledge did that case change anything to do with the IRS on the federal level, or 3ABN's status or exemptions when filing the required federal tax forms..

42 million in assets... whateva.... keep spinnin that foolishness...

[watchbird]

First: as Clay said, the court has determined 3ABN is not a nonprofit organization.

Second: they are a ministry, not a typical business, where if you are a good businessman, you can and should remain in your position as long as a business is growing and making profit.

By their influence they are presenting or misrepresenting God to those who look at them.

That's why I think this quote applies even to Danny who is not a minister, nor a president of the conference, the PRINCIPLE still works in his case.
"If a minister has been unfaithful in his work it is not likely that he will mend the matter by remaining. The churches become accustomed to the management of that one man, and think they must look to him instead of to God. His ideas and plans have a contorolling power in the conference..."

"The people may see that he errs in judgment, and because of this they learn to place a low estimate upon the ministry... the church members settle down, indifferent, lukeworm, doing nothing to bring thinks into order...."

Even though Danny is far from being a minister or a president of a conference, through his business he has accomplished exactly the same. Am I right?
Carmel

I think you are right... and that you have put your finger squarely on the weakness of independent ministries. While there are no other such ministries that I know of who abuse their power nor misappropriate their funds to the extent that 3abn has done, the problem of one person control... and one family control.... is still a potential problem. Which is why all such ministries need to have lines of accountability.... and those lines should reach far enough beyond themselves so any problems that develop can be solved by those outside of the power structure of the ministry.... up to and including even permanent replacement of leaders and founders.

[Johann]

I think you are right... and that you have put your finger squarely on the weakness of independent ministries. While there are no other such ministries that I know of who abuse their power nor misappropriate their funds to the extent that 3abn has done, the problem of one person control... and one family control.... is still a potential problem. Which is why all such ministries need to have lines of accountability.... and those lines should reach far enough beyond themselves so any problems that develop can be solved by those outside of the power structure of the ministry.... up to and including even permanent replacement of leaders and founders.

People here are concluding this is serious business, and needs to be dealt with as such. And since this business advocates working for the Lord, counsel is needed from the Lord, and not only from the internal voices of praise to one of the co-founders.

[Aletheia]

I think you are right... and that you have put your finger squarely on the weakness of independent ministries. While there are no other such ministries that I know of who abuse their power nor misappropriate their funds to the extent that 3abn has done, the problem of one person control... and one family control.... is still a potential problem. Which is why all such ministries need to have lines of accountability.... and those lines should reach far enough beyond themselves so any problems that develop can be solved by those outside of the power structure of the ministry.... up to and including even permanent replacement of leaders and founders.

Lacking here, as usual.

Proof funds have been misapropriated to such an extent, or to any extent...

Proof that those you are claiming have abused their authority, have done so...

Proof, one family is controllong 3ABN... ( how many on the board are Shelton's?)

Proof one person controls all others....

Proof, that there are no lines of accountability..




And yes, the burden of proof lies on the accuser, the one making the claims against another.

42 million in assets... whateva.... keep spinnin that foolishness...

Clay,

Itt doesn't matter how much a company brings in or doesn't bring in, when it comes to being a profit or not for profit business, it does depend on what that money is for and does.. Yes 3ABN generates alot of money and it costs alot of money to do the work and ministry they do...

Feel free to cite any document or official source claiming and showing that 3ABN is no longer a not for profit organization, and proving they are legally classed otherwise...

[Clay]

Aletheia..... keep spinnin sister keep spinnin.... its amazing you don't get dizzy from all that spinning....

[simplysaved]

O.K., if deemed a business by the judical branch of our government, even moreso a reason why the standards of a church cannot be equivocated to it, and the EGW counsel not be applicable....

the court determined that 3abn was NOT a nonprofit business.... there is definitely profit being made.... and spent....

Not the same....this now explains why many ministers are beginning their own "corporations" or "non-denominational, independent ministries"....

First: as Clay said, the court has determined 3ABN is not a nonprofit organization.

Second: they are a ministry, not a typical business, where if you are a good businessman, you can and should remain in your position as long as a business is growing and making profit.

By their influence they are presenting or misrepresenting God to those who look at them.

That's why I think this quote applies even to Danny who is not a minister, nor a president of the conference, the PRINCIPLE still works in his case.
"If a minister has been unfaithful in his work it is not likely that he will mend the matter by remaining. The churches become accustomed to the management of that one man, and think they must look to him instead of to God. His ideas and plans have a contorolling power in the conference..."

"The people may see that he errs in judgment, and because of this they learn to place a low estimate upon the ministry... the church members settle down, indifferent, lukeworm, doing nothing to bring thinks into order...."

Even though Danny is far from being a minister or a president of a conference, through his business he has accomplished exactly the same. Am I right?Carmel

[Lee]

I'm still waiting for the proof Aletheia was speaking about. I'd be interested in seeing it Watchbird and Clay...not just words spewing but actual PROOF! You know, as in documented evidence for what you say?

But there really isn't any proof right?

[Clay]

I'm still waiting for the proof Aletheia was speaking about. I'd be interested in seeing it Watchbird and Clay...not just words spewing but actual PROOF! You know, as in documented evidence for what you say?

But there really isn't any proof right?

you seem to be a spinner too.... keep on spinnin....

[Johann]

O.K., if deemed a business by the judical branch of our government, even moreso a reason why the standards of a church cannot be equivocated to it, and the EGW counsel not be applicable....
- - -

So, here I was instructed that 3ABN was a conservative Adventist ministry - and this was one reason I accepted working for them. One of the marks of conservative Adventists is that they also heed the instructions given by Ellen White. Are we now discovering that the standards of the church are not applicable to 3ABN?

This post has been edited by Johann: Mar 5 2007, 12:04 PM

[awesumtenor]

I'm still waiting for the proof Aletheia was speaking about. I'd be interested in seeing it Watchbird and Clay...not just words spewing but actual PROOF! You know, as in documented evidence for what you say?

But there really isn't any proof right?

The rest of the world is waiting for the proof of Linda Shelton's adultery... and have been waiting for a lot longer than Aletheia... as you said... not spewing words... but actual PROOF...You know, as in documented evidence for what you say?

But there really isn't any proof, right? Otherwise your camp wouldn't be hiding in shadows and dealing in innuendo and rumor.

You'd have put it out there and been done with it... but instead we've seen 3 years come and go and no proof...

Another nail in the coffin of your collective and several hypocrisy...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Lee]

So, here I was instructed that 3ABN was a conservative Adventist ministry - and this was one reason I accepted working for them. One of the marks of conservative Adventists is that they also heed the instructions given by Ellen White. Are we now discovering that the standards of the church are not applicable to 3ABN?

So, where has 3ABN not heeded what Ellen White or the Bible says Johann? Again--proof please!

[Johann]

So, where has 3ABN not heeded what Ellen White or the Bible says Johann? Again--proof please!

I was responding to a post which stated that 3ABN did not have to heed the counsel of Ellen White because it is an independent ministry. . .

When there was a problem back in 2004 I wrote to Walt and Danny and pointed out the Biblical solution, but it was not heeded then, and neither have I seen it heeded since. I have repeated this so many times, even here on BSDA, but nobody from 3ABN has shown any interest until now. Perhaps this will be coming?

This post has been edited by Johann: Mar 5 2007, 12:21 PM

[Lee]

Are you saying all "independent" ministries don't follow Ellen White? Where is your evidence and proof of this statement? I'm especially interested in proof of 3ABN not heeding the counsel of Mrs. White.

Still waiting...

[Johann]

Are you saying all "independent" ministries don't follow Ellen White? Where is your evidence and proof of this statement? I'm especially interested in proof of 3ABN not heeding the counsel of Mrs. White.

Still waiting...

I wrote to these men and pointed to how Joseph decided to deal with Mary, and asked them if this iis not a pattern to follow in treating Linda. But this did not apply to 3ABN!!!