Asi Responds Options

[Daryl Fawcett]

FYI:

The letter from Harold Lance has now been posted for the world to see on the 3-ABN website.

Where is it there? I looked but couldn't find it.

[watchbird]

Where is it there? I looked but couldn't find it.

On the front page, left hand side... "Special Feature".... or go direct to http://www.3abn.org/3abn_asi_update.cfm

[PaperTigers]

I have never even tried to pretend that I am completely on the Linda bandwagon, I didn't like some of the things that she did, but that doesn't mean that I think that she was treated fairly and that is the reason that I started posting on this site. So don't try to act like you know who I am or what I am about.

[sonshineonme]

FYI:

The letter from Harold Lance has now been posted for the world to see on the 3-ABN website.

Yes, I posted this anouncement last night (#72) as soon as we saw it there....(no one reads my posts JK )

[Panama_Pete]

Yes, I posted this anouncement last night (#72) as soon as we saw it there....(no one reads my posts JK )

I saw your post, Sonshineonme, and found the letter. However, Harold Lance's long, chiding letter didn't seem to merit any comment.

All Harold Lance really says is that "Linda's team did not accept that ASI was capable of providing a fair forum, and adds, "We believe ASI has no jurisdiction to consider internal issues of 3ABN management...."

Had ASI said ASI did have the right to make inquiry over 3ABN's internal issues, due to the amount of money ASI donates to 3ABN, most likely, it would have been Danny Shelton who would not have accepted the ASI process.

[princessdi]

Bystander, please see posts # 68 and #73. if it is still unclear to you, or if you have any other questions about an Admin action, please PM, Calvin, Clay, or myself.

Di, I have read your posts to wwjd and eyewitness and am not making any sense of it. What did I miss. I went to the page before this and thought wwjd was addressing sister not you. Then you said no need to be nasty. What was nasty? The very nastiest thing I saw last night was sister calling Danny S. a hick, redneck, conman taking money from old ladies ect. ect. I didn't see where she got a warning...mmm. coulda missed it I guess....

[Observer]

Questions and comments have been made in regard to the motives of the so-called Linda's Team as they related to the attempt of ASI to mediated the issues. In response to that, I am posting here a letter that Mr. Joy sent out on September 24, 2006. As it is a long letter, I have left out the first three paragrpahs. Those three essentially expressed confidence in Linda, her Christian spirit in her time of trouble (my words) and other support. Well, we all know that Mr. Joy supports Linda. So, there is no need to post those three paragraphs. With the exception of removing a couple of names, I am posting the rest of the letter, as written.

It was written to a minister in the General Conference, and his name will not be given at this time. Here is the rest of the letter, beginning with paragraph four:

"However, keep in mind, we have three clear and distinct avenues of potential authority that must be each allocated it's due process under law; civil, criminal and canonical law, in order to fully restore Linda to the level of integrity and public faith she once enjoyed, and even these have overlapping concerns:

Civil - issues of public interest that would include the hypocracy of proclaiming the "un-diluted Three Angels Messages" while allegedly living as charletons and philanderers in a virtual modern day Peyton Place, Dallas and James Bakker ministry all rapped into one profit for Shelton, Non Profit institution;

Criminal - issues that must be ultimately resolved by federal, state and even international governments relating to alleged criminal conspiracy to defraud constituents, consumers and donors of the various gifts granted or lent and and alleged conversion of some of those assets by various direct and indirect means to the use of primarilly Sheldon Family members or those who constituted close personal or business aquaintances, some employees and others non-employees allegedly virtually at Danny's choosing and direction.

Cannonical or Ecclesiastical Authority - in the SDA church we have a near federalist system with a quasi-congregational system as the local community given powers in out-reach, community services, education and invariably church discipline. However assets and the regional or state administration processes are given over to the conference corporation which also grants credentials to ministries and ministers and manage a host of departments, including education and ministerial supervision. The association of churches gives and can take local church charters. Union, NAD and GC really serves as sources of experience and wisdom and has taken certain specialty concerns, such as hospital, colleges, universities and other major assets of the corporation. However, the potential use of heirarchal authority within the Union, NAD and GC cannot be ignored by the conference leadership lest they find their careers stagnated or ended. And the issue of large sums of money either as tithes, gifts, loans or trusts being transferred into non-ecclesiastical lines with little or no accountability to the church entities, constituents, donors or trustators that made these sums available to the alleged corrupt organization also must ultimately be addressed as part of this very serious challenge to the church. In fact, if the allegations prove to be reasonably accurate, this could be the largest challenge to the Seventh-day Adventist church since John Harvey Kellogg.

Given this reality, for Linda to regain a status of acceptability to get back into the churches, there must be a process of clear and ecclesiastically acceptable exoneration for her to pursue the ministry that she wishes to get back to. Therefore, we must logically address ecclesiastical concerns as well as civil and criminal.

Criminal has a momentum of it's own and all anyone can do is provide appropriate documentation or point investigators in the direction they need to search to find meaningful evidence. This process has begun, for better or for worse, but will invariably take time.

Civil issues are already being investigated and researched and reports will be made available as the sources and stories are verified and, whenever possible, documented. They can be released to a variety of media designed to give the widest possible circulation for those that need to be aware and to make educated decisions as to how they will Tithe, donate, gift, loan or trust to the entity known as 3ABN.

In addition I have become aware of at least two books that are being prepared for publication that will address various issues relating to the allegations currently under research and investigation. These will most probably be given very wide circulation and go far toward defining the various charges and counter-charges.

Since the current clear allegation from [deleted] has hit the streets, 3ABN directors have expressed they would like proof that [deleted] was the source of the allegation and then, if she is the source, they would like to ask her to meet and discuss the allegations.

Since these are no longer the only allegations on the table for discussion, I am proposing that we accomodate the entire series of allegations by empanelling a panel to look at the [deleted] allegations; the Pastor Dryden allegations against Tommy Shelton; the allegations that Linda had an inappropriate relationship with Arild Abrahamsen; the issue that prior to, during and after the Linda/Arild allegations that Danny was clearly being observed having multiple inappropriate realtionship; and other inappropriate financial allegations; that there have been several open and notorious inappropriate inter-staff relationships, some by allegation and some of which were clearly "caught" or "confessed"; all of which the local church has failed to discipline or the institution has failed to equally apply due process or any process at all due to clear and obvious conflicts.

The panel should be given all the powers of a tribunal / arbitration panel with appropriate counsel for both sides present to conduct direct and cross-examination of the witnesses, with the tribunal to have authority to make direct inquiry of the witnesses, with as broad a rule of evidence as the tribunal feels is neccasary to find the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Provision needs to be made to allow the introduction of witnesses in executive session such that not only are witnesses protected from the peering eyes of various leadership, but can give open and honest and unimpeded testimony as Witness x, y, z et siq. I am proposing that the original parties, the 3ABN board and Linda [and deleted] each be allowed to have two observers sworn to protect the witnesses from retaliation by Leadership and others to observe the procedings and to be able to certify the process as fair and appropriate.

The panel would be convened for a period of up 5 days (or longer at their determination) at a sight to be determined in southern Illinois, would take testimony, would look at each allegation seperately and distinctly, would issue a report of the allegations and their conclusions, would make those conclusions available to the various churches or church affiliates that become involved in allegations against individual parties or institutions and even recommend the convening of appropriate business sessions to deal with the discipline required.

Since certain allegations directly import the agreement with the GC and with ASI and it's bylaws for participation, it would be expected they would act expediantly to protect the church or it's affiliates from any ongoing harm. Perhaps the panel would issue an issues specific report on the caliber of the "Issues..." reports of the 1990's.

If the church or church affiliate fails to convene appropriate business sessions or refuses to administer discipline, then the panel would be empowered to approach the appropriate conference committee with a copy of the report and to seek a special constituency to determine if the offending church body should be disbanded from the brother-hood of churches. Since the Illinois cionference is of particular focus, then we would expect the officers and conflicted directors to recuse themselves and to allow the Union President to preside over these particular proceedings. Of course any appeal would be to the Union, NAD or GC.

I trust this would clarify why I feel we need to also address the ecclesiastical authority. I assume the fairest of panels would clearly exonerate Linda and Arild, although this is obviously not assured, and this goes without saying, the fastest way to open the gates of churches to welcome her deeply Spiritual Ministry back into the churches. I will leave the results relating to Danny, et, al, 3ABN, et siq, to your various imaginations.

Thank-you for your inquiry and please let me know if you have further questions as this discussion helps to mold the process into a clear basis for pursuit of the issues within the Remnant Church.

Gailon Arthur Joy"

What do we see in this letter to the General Conference.

1) Yes, as we already knew, Gailon speaks with emotional force.
2) He was clearly calling for a pannel, somewhat of the nature of that proposed by ASI.
3) Yes, he did ask for a more complete review of the issues and the alligations.
4) You will note that this clearly stated that the ultimate resolution of certain issues could only come by civil authorities. Folks, we were in substantial agreement with ASI that some issues simply could not be resolved by ASI. But, the details needed to be worked out. That was where things broke down in my perception.

I will suggest that this letter by Mr. Joy to the General Conference may have resulted in the GC putting out "feelers" to 3-ABN and ASI to see if ASI could get involved. Folks, the Linda Team, wanted things to work. But, we did not beleive that ASI could resolve all issues, and we agreed with ASI on that point.

This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 26 2007, 02:40 PM

[Daryl Fawcett]

On the front page, left hand side... "Special Feature".... or go direct to http://www.3abn.org/3abn_asi_update.cfm

I thought you were referring to the Save 3ABN site, not the 3ABN one itself.



Isn't that interesting that they would put this up on their own website for all the world to see.



They must have felt they made a good score on that one.

This post has been edited by Daryl Fawcett: Jan 26 2007, 03:25 PM

[inga]

Isn't that interesting that they would put this up on their own website for all the world to see.

They must have felt they made a good score on that one.

Indeed! Note that only the issue of Dan's right to remarry was supposed to be addressed. And it also seems that only the "findings" were supposed to go public -- not all the evidence presented.

They wanted an obviously rigged process. Failing that -- since Linda wanted complete transparency -- they are blaming Linda as though she didn't want to cooperate because she had something to hide. They are claiming Danny's exoneration by default.

Thats not exactly what Lance's letter says, but that's the spin 3ABN folks on this board have put on it. (And we have good reason to believe that these folks are major players at 3ABN.)

[Hawk]

Danny came on this forum and lied. Bystander said he was leaving and lied. Eye Witness bore false witness and lied. 3ABN couldn't even tell the truth in something as small as the names of four little children and lied to all of their viewers. How can anything you'uns say be given any credibility? Reminds me of a joke. "How do you know when a televangelist is lying? His lips are moving."

[sonshineonme]

Danny came on this forum and lied. Bystander said he was leaving and lied. Eye Witness bore false witness and lied. 3ABN couldn't even tell the truth in something as small as the names of four little children and lied to all of their viewers. How can anything you'uns say be given any credibility? Reminds me of a joke. "How do you know when a televangelist is lying? His lips are moving."

Hawk, I LIKE YOU!! Tell it like it is!! Keep it up!! It's GREAT to have you hear!! It's a breath of fresh air to have another person here from T-ville who knows how to tell the truth! Guess there's some hope for S. Illinois!


This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Jan 27 2007, 01:39 AM

[sister]

Danny came on this forum and lied. Bystander said he was leaving and lied. Eye Witness bore false witness and lied. 3ABN couldn't even tell the truth in something as small as the names of four little children and lied to all of their viewers. How can anything you'uns say be given any credibility? Reminds me of a joke. "How do you know when a televangelist is lying? His lips are moving."

Wait a minute! In this case it is REALLY true!

[Hawk]

Also, Kaiser, another representative of 3ABN and the Sheltons, came here and spouted a flurry of racist comments directed against people of color. Again, representative of 3ABN/the Sheltons.

[Pickle]

Last night a pastor called me, having found an email he received on September 19 from Gailon that specifically states that Gailon had spent two hours talking with the church leader who got the ASI panel review process going in the first place.

And then we have an email from Gailon CC'ed to that same church leader written September 24 that spells out the allegations that needed to be addressed, allegations which they certainly must have discussed in the two-hour conversation referred to above. And some of those allegations were the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations, which were a major factor in getting the ASI panel review process going.

That being said, Harold Lance's statement puts him in the awkward position of of appearing to be either lying or in the dark when he says that Gailon was unknown to ASI leadership prior to October 3. Frankly, I prefer the latter option.

It also puts Harold in the awkward light of appearing to be participating in a cover up of the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations, since even when I pointed out that the child molestation allegations were a major factor in getting the ball rolling, and that Danny had made it very clear to me that he intended to use the findings of a restricted ASI investigation as a smokescreen to make all the other allegations go away, Harold wouldn't budge one bit from his position that only the divorce and remarriage issue could be considered. (Personally, I think there are more charitable explanations for this problem than that he was intentionally trying to cover things up.)

Harold's statement itself constitutes a blatant and grievous violation of the terms of the confidentiality agreement that all participants had to agree to before they could participate, namely, that after the discussions, whether or not the process went forward, only a mutually agreed upon statement would be issued. Harold made no contact with me to negotiate such a statement, and I eagerly await his reply to my message of Thursday which said, "And it would also help if you can assure me that no one that could be associated with Danny's side saw your statement before it was sent out to Gregory, Gailon, Linda, or myself."

The more I think about this, the more I think a detailed response must be given, including the publishing of the various communications that we have had that demonstrate that his statement is unfair, inaccurate, and/or distorted. I also hope that Harold will come up with some sort of way to rectify this situation which is inevitably extremely embarrassing for himself.

I do hope Danny will not be so brazen as to have Harold's statement published in 3ABN World.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Jan 27 2007, 07:39 AM

[watchbird]

.... much snipped for space considerations...
Harold's statement itself constitutes a blatant and grievous violation of the terms of the confidentiality agreement that all participants had to agree to before they could participate, namely, that after the discussions, whether or not the process went forward, only a mutually agreed upon statement would be issued. Harold made no contact with me to negotiate such a statement, and I eagerly await his reply to my message of Thursday which said, "And it would also help if you can assure me that no one that could be associated with Danny's side saw your statement before it was sent out to Gregory, Gailon, Linda, or myself."

The more I think about this, the more I think a detailed response must be given, including the publishing of the various communications that we have had that demonstrate that his statement is unfair, inaccurate, and/or distorted. I also hope that Harold will come up with some sort of way to rectify this situation which is inevitably extremely embarrassing for himself.

I do hope Danny will not be so brazen as to have Harold's statement published in 3ABN World.

I doubt that there is much basis for this "hope". But it will not be all bad even if it does, for the more it is circulated, the more who will see it and have questions, and those who have questions will seek for answers.

As for publishing the various communications.... I think it should, of course, all go on the save3abn site... and of course that they should all be posted here. From that others will doubtless pick them up and send them out by vaious means... including email, snail mail, and perhaps even other web site locations or news media.