Hi From Barbara Kerr In Norway, A love letter to all Options

[Observer]

Re: "The second reason ( and there is paperwork to prove it) is that When he traveled for 3abn if an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertable. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening."

I did a fair amont of traveling last September. We were able to upgrade (there were three of us and lots of luggage) for as little as $1.00 to $2.00 per day. In some cases an upgrade cost us exactly the same.

Looks to me like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Business does not fire an employee for spending more on a hotel room than management wanted. It simplly requires the employee to pay the difference. I travel for the Federal government. If I go over the established budget, I pay for that overage. It is my choice as to what I do.

It is the same for me with air travel. I can fly at any class that I want. But, the government is not going to pay me to fly First Class. So, if I do, I pay the difference.

As to the length of time it took for the accounting department to catch on: Well that simply raises questions about that department. If I exceeed my budgeted amount for a travel expense, it will immediately be caught. I will be only paid the budgeted amounts. I know, because I have had some of my expense claims denied. That is the way that it works in business and in the government.

[Guest_glenetta_*]

Actually yes and there were several reasons. So instead of just hiring him as an employee they contracted him out. That way, if, anything happened they could not be held responsible. That was then, I have no idea what the arrangement is now.
The second reason ( and there is paperwork to prove it) is that When he traveled for 3abn if an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertable. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening.
I could go farther but I won't, That should be enough for reasonable people to question the fact that D. says he was fired because he "supported" Linda.
And, you know what else, None of this hasn't been told and wouldn't have been if again, the members here demand details/proof. ANy statements made by me tonight can all be verified with paperwork.

Oh my lands, I think I have just put it together on who D is. Well, well, well. Do you know that in Central America there is a D that has, a shadow that follows. If you don't know about shadows wwjd please PM me and I will tell you the silouette of D. Why are you using the D. He is a public figure and has been on 3ABN lots. I believe it was with the marketing and cable part.

edited for content.....

[inga]

you and/or others have referred to Danny's quick trip to Guam. False. Somebody didn't tell the truth, he never went there, They did it by mail, in agreement as is proven by their signatures.

And I've never read anything different, except for one post in which someone assumed a "quick trip to Guam." You are exaggerating this out of all proportion precisely the way you accuse others on here of exaggeration. (Some do jump to exaggerated conclusions, but you claim to stand for "truth," and you don't help your cause by misrepresentations and exaggerations.)

You and others have alleged that Linda was kicked aside for Brandi. Lie. The divorce was filed in early June,04 it was finalized either the 24th or 25th of June. Brandi did not even move here until November 11th and they did not date until several months after that. Someone wasn't telling the truth.

Again you misquote. I was the one who recently referred to Danny's divorce and remarriage. And I specifically referred to the date that the divorce was declared legal in Illinois. Danny married Brandi within days of that date. I was not referring to the date of the original Guam divorce. Thus my statement was fully accurate.

[wwjd]

[quote name='Observer' date='Feb 9 2007, 10:47 AM' post='176795']
Re: "The second reason ( and there is paperwork to prove it) is that When he traveled for 3abn if an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertable. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening."

I did a fair amont of traveling last September. We were able to upgrade (there were three of us and lots of luggage) for as little as $1.00 to $2.00 per day. In some cases an upgrade cost us exactly the same.

Looks to me like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Greg, DM never paid the difference. There would have been no problem if he had. The bills show it was a lot more that 1 or 2 dollars a day difference. A lot more. Or again, nothing would have been said. And as stated that was one of several reasons.

[inga]

Re: "The second reason ( and there is paperwork to prove it) is that When he traveled for 3abn if an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertable. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening."

I did a fair amont of traveling last September. We were able to upgrade (there were three of us and lots of luggage) for as little as $1.00 to $2.00 per day. In some cases an upgrade cost us exactly the same.

Looks to me like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Business does not fire an employee for spending more on a hotel room than management wanted. It simplly requires the employee to pay the difference. I travel for the Federal government. If I go over the established budget, I pay for that overage. It is my choice as to what I do.

It is the same for me with air travel. I can fly at any class that I want. But, the government is not going to pay me to fly First Class. So, if I do, I pay the difference.

And I can think of some good reasons to upgrade if a person is not small size. My husband is tall, and many car models and economy seats in air lines just do not work well for him. (His head is agains the roof in many cars, and his knees are against his chest on some cheap flights.) I have no idea how tall Derrel is, but if what WWJD says is true, there may be a perfectly legitimate explanation.

As to the length of time it took for the accounting department to catch on: Well that simply raises questions about that department. If I exceeed my budgeted amount for a travel expense, it will immediately be caught. I will be only paid the budgeted amounts. I know, because I have had some of my expense claims denied. That is the way that it works in business and in the government.

Indeed.

And, by the way, there is no reason to bring Derrel's private affairs into this forum. They have nothing to do with 3ABN and Calvin has clearly stated that we are not to drag extended family members into this when it has nothing to do with 3ABN.

[calvin]

And I can think of some good reasons to upgrade if a person is not small size. My husband is tall, and many car models and economy seats in air lines just do not work well for him. (His head is agains the roof in many cars, and his knees are against his chest on some cheap flights.) I have no idea how tall Derrel is, but if what WWJD says is true, there may be a perfectly legitimate explanation.

Indeed.

And, by the way, there is no reason to bring Derrel's private affairs into this forum. They have nothing to do with 3ABN and Calvin has clearly stated that we are not to drag extended family members into this when it has nothing to do with 3ABN.

Thanks you Inga for pointing this out. Derrell is not a public figure in this saga, he deserves his privacy. Unless Derrell, you want to bring it up here then that would put the subject in play. I believe he has not.

BTW, I saw another Yohann from wwjd or bystander. I won’t be telling you again to give him the respect to call him Johann. Do it again and you are out of here.

[princessdi]

This is why you were told to read before posting. Everyone knows who he is. We knew who he was when he came, he has never kept it a secret, but you wuold n't know that because you just got here and didn'r anything to get a good understanding of what was happening. Wwjd is playing you. you have no privileged information in knowing his identity. Besides the fact atht someone posted his name already.

I am really going have to stay our of the redial class!

Oh my lands, I think I have just put it together on who D is. Well, well, well. Do you know that in Central America there is a D that has, a shadow that follows. If you don't know about shadows wwjd please PM me and I will tell you the silouette of D. Why are you using the D. He is a public figure and has been on 3ABN lots. I believe it was with the marketing and cable part.

edited for content.....

[inga]

Brandy's divorce became final October 14, 2004. This is a matter of public record. You do not file for divorce and have it finalized the same day so how may weeks or months before it became final did she file? Why did she file for divorce? And if the November date is accurate, she was very newly divorced. If she came earlier, was she still married? She may or may not have officially moved there in November, but did she show up unofficially earlier? How does wwjd determine the November 11th date? How do you determine if you are "officially" dating?

I'd like answers to these questions too.

[Fran]

WWJD said: Actually, yes, and there were several reasons. The first and more important reason is reflected on their divorce papers. So instead of just hiring him as an employee, they contracted him out.

Fran wonders:

How can they contract “Out” something that is not theirs to contract “Out”? I am confused.

Either he is an employee, or he is not. It sounds like D was under Contract to 3ABN, and 3ABN sent him on work for 3ABN. We all know what Contract Workers are. They are contracted to avoid paying any benefits to that person. The employee gets a 1099 and has to pay self employment tax. Yep, the contracted person has to pay 100% of the Social Security. Normally an employer has to pay half. No unemployment insurance is paid by the contracting company. No Medical, Dental or life insurance. Not even any profit sharing or retirement.

Because of this, many contractors get top dollar. Is this the case here? It is a subjective arrangement. It depends on which aside you are sitting.

The comment “So instead of just hiring him as an employee, they contracted him out,” has me puzzled. How can you contract out someone that isn’t yours to contract out? Maybe it is just the way it was said. Did you mean he was a subcontractor? I can see that in some circumstances.

WWJD continues:

That way, if, anything happened they could not be held responsible. That was then, I have no idea what the arrangement is now.

The second reason (and there is paperwork to prove it) is that when he traveled for 3ABN.

A. If an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertible.
B. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening.

Fran’s Opinion:

This rests in the lap of the CFO. The Payables Department needs to be revamped to follow GAAP. Someone was not following procedures or there are no clear cut procedures to follow.

Normal procedures would state that a Purchase Order be prepared for everything. This would even mean for traveling. There is a need travel, lodging, transportation and per diem (food) can be processed in several ways.

1. The person needing to travel, at 3ABN’s expense, produces a Purchase Order (PO) stating where they are going and the times they need to travel and turns it in. Management approves/disapproves the travel. The purchasing department then books the arrangements/reservations and puts the quoted price on to the PO. This is the approved amount that will be paid/reimbursed; no less, and no more.
2. Many corporations have turned to corporate credit cards. If 3ABN pays the approved amounts to the vendor, there will never be any black holes. The traveler will be responsible for any upgrades desired right then and there.
3. Remember this, if a door is left open, someone WILL walk through it. It happens every time!

I have other questions. What was D allowed to do before the divorce? Were all of the expected changes outlined to D after the divorce?

WWJD continues:

I could go farther but I won't. That should be enough for reasonable people to question the fact that D. says he was fired because he "supported" Linda.

And, you know what else; none of this hasn't been told and wouldn't have been if again, the members here demand details/proof. Any statements made by me tonight can all be verified with paperwork.

Fran:

I am confused. “And, you know what else; none of this hasn't been told and wouldn't have been if again, the members here demand details/proof.”

Should it really be read as this: “You know what else; none of this [has] been told [before] and wouldn't have been [now] if [] the members here [had not] demand[ed] details/proof [again].”?

I clearly can see you are not Danny. However, we know you are very close. God bless you and your family.

[inga]

The second reason ( and there is paperwork to prove it) is that When he traveled for 3abn if an economy car was reserved for him at the airport, he would, shall we say, upgrade to something a little snazzier like a convertable. If his room was reserved at the comfort Inn he would "upgrade" to a 4 star hotel....ALL without permission from management. It was a little bit before the accounting department caught what was happening.

H'mm ... I wonder if others would be fired for the same reasons ... i.e. for spending more money than necessary. Do the same standards apply to Danny, for instance? Does Danny travel in the most economical manner feasible?

And, by the way, I have no reason to doubt that what you say about Derrell is true. He confessed to being sucked into the extravagant lifestyle of a certain echelon at 3ABN. And he said he was ashamed of his part in it. (You can probably find his post on the subject if you search the forum. I believe he also mentioned what event caused his change of heart.)

It leaves me to wonder whether others are equally ashamed. It also leaves me wondering whether spending habits have changed since Derrell left.

[Richard Sherwin]

Does make you wonder doesn't it? A worker gets fired for ungrading from a economy to one more to his liking while the boss travels around in a 6 million dollar luxury jet, (that holds the same amount of passengers as a minivan). Oh ya, that's right Danny doesn't own the jet so that makes everything hunky dory.

Richard

H'mm ... I wonder if others would be fired for the same reasons ... i.e. for spending more money than necessary. Do the same standards apply to Danny, for instance? Does Danny travel in the most economical manner feasible?

And, by the way, I have no reason to doubt that what you say about Derrell is true. He confessed to being sucked into the extravagant lifestyle of a certain echelon at 3ABN. And he said he was ashamed of his part in it. (You can probably find his post on the subject if you search the forum. I believe he also mentioned what event caused his change of heart.)

It leaves me to wonder whether others are equally ashamed. It also leaves me wondering whether spending habits have changed since Derrell left.

[wwjd]

H'mm ... I wonder if others would be fired for the same reasons ... i.e. for spending more money than necessary. Do the same standards apply to Danny, for instance? Does Danny travel in the most economical manner feasible?

You honed in on one thing and just to be clear. No employee of a company can up grade several hundreds of dollars worth over a period of time without PERMISSION from the employer.
You ignored what was said was the major problem, and ignored that there were several more problems besides.

I must say this: how many ceo's of an organization that travel as extensively as 3abn don't lease a jet. Danny and 3abn did travel commercial for years and years and still do overseas. Linda rode on that plane for several years and pushed as much or more than anyone to make their travel a little easier, but I have yet to hear a comment about that. It's funny that the jet setter picture wasn't painted until after the divorce then all of these rumors about hob knobbing on a jet. mmm wonder where they came from? As long as she was on it you never heard a minute of complaint.

[sister]

You honed in on one thing and just to be clear. No employee of a company can up grade several hundreds of dollars worth over a period of time without PERMISSION from the employer.
You ignored what was said was the major problem, and ignored that there were several more problems besides.

I must say this: how many ceo's of an organization that travel as extensively as 3abn don't lease a jet. Danny and 3abn did travel commercial for years and years and still do overseas. Linda rode on that plane for several years and pushed as much or more than anyone to make their travel a little easier, but I have yet to hear a comment about that. It's funny that the jet setter picture wasn't painted until after the divorce then all of these rumors about hob knobbing on a jet. mmm wonder where they came from? As long as she was on it you never heard a minute of complaint.

Let's narrow the field to religious ministries or non-profit organizations, of which 3ABN is purported to be, rather than privately owned companies. This gives quite a different paradigm than the one you are spinning. Let me give an example to consider, the Seventh-day Adventist church: Does the president of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, who travels travels more extensively than Danny Shelton, lease a private jet? Of course not. The expense would not be justifiable. Is it justifiable for Danny Shelton? No. Of course not.

You claim it was Linda who pushed for the jet, with which I disagree. And if it were true, as you claimed, than why didn't Danny get rid of the jet at the same time he was getting rid of his wife?

He had no problem sacking his wife, but it appears the luxury of a jet gassed up and waiting for him in Marion is quite another story. Of course the jet makes it much easier for Dan to make quick trips to Utah to watch his favorite basketball team in person, all on the donor's dime...

Sister

This post has been edited by sister: Feb 11 2007, 03:39 AM

[Observer]

It's funny that the jet setter picture wasn't painted until after the divorce then all of these rumors about hob knobbing on a jet. mmm wonder where they came from? As long as she was on it you never heard a minute of complaint.

I thought that ADVENTIST TODAY first raised this issue. I thought that it did so prior to the divorce. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You honed in on one thing and just to be clear. No employee of a company can up grade several hundreds of dollars worth over a period of time without PERMISSION from the employer.

Incorrect.

In government and business the employee who upgrades without permission pays for the extra charge. That employee is not fired. The details as to how the employee pays for the extra charge vary according to the rules of the organizaton. But, the result is the same. The employee pays.

This post has been edited by Observer: Feb 11 2007, 04:49 AM

[Johann]

Thanks you Inga for pointing this out. Derrell is not a public figure in this saga, he deserves his privacy. Unless Derrell, you want to bring it up here then that would put the subject in play. I believe he has not.

BTW, I saw another Yohann from wwjd or bystander. I won’t be telling you again to give him the respect to call him Johann. Do it again and you are out of here.

You are very kind to me, Calvin, but you do no need to take spacial considerations to me. I survive their abuse!