Save3abn Website Uses Blackmail Tactics, 3abn better not go to Court! Options

[watchbird]

Yes it is. There's a rather interesting and informative article which was published by Liberty magazine about this a couple years back. Liberty takes a stance, and portrays the issues, and cites laws and precidents very differently then most of those posting here. For that reason, I believe it is pertinent, and even a good rebuttal to the accusers of 3ABN regarding the tax case.

I haven't seen the article ever posted on BSDA, so for those interested:
It's rather lengthy. To read the entire article, go here:

LIBERTY - a magazine of religious freedom - "How Religious Was My Exemption?"

Ah yes.... the "religious liberty card"..... one of the (supposedly) "trump" cards in the "persecution game" deck of cards. I have been wondering how long it would be before this one was thrown out on the table.....

Thank you for this look at how the expert GC lawyer/writer confuseticated the issues by not distinguishing between property tax laws and non-profit status tax exemption laws.... and used the resulting confused amalgamation as a "text" for a "religious liberty" sermon. And of course, completely ignored the evidence that 3abn was, in fact, a business operating at a profit, rather than a non-profit religious "ministry". Oh well...

I wondered at the time it came out... and I wonder again rereading it now.... whatever could possibly be going on behind the scenes....... for the GC Lawyer to come out this publicly in support of an "independent ministry" with such a tangled spin doctored reporting. (For those not familiar with the original publication time..... as I recall it came out at about the "right time" to have appeared to be a more or less direct response to the Adventist Today article that brought it to our attention first).

Of course, now I have more information on which to base my wonderment.... with the document we have seen in which the GC agreed in writing to support 3abn all around the world.... and the evidence we have seen that the GC also operates in the face of fiscal threats from one of the "financial supporters" they hold in common with 3abn.

In view of all we know now.... what else would/should we expect......

[Observer]

Ah yes.... the "religious liberty card"..... one of the (supposedly) "trump" cards in the "persecution game" deck of cards. I have been wondering how long it would be before this one was thrown out on the table.....

Thank you for this look at how the expert GC lawyer/writer confuseticated the issues by not distinguishing between property tax laws and non-profit status tax exemption laws.... and used the resulting confused amalgamation as a "text" for a "religious liberty" sermon. And of course, completely ignored the evidence that 3abn was, in fact, a business operating at a profit, rather than a non-profit religious "ministry". Oh well...

I wondered at the time it came out... and I wonder again rereading it now.... whatever could possibly be going on behind the scenes....... for the GC Lawyer to come out this publicly in support of an "independent ministry" with such a tangled spin doctored reporting. (For those not familiar with the original publication time..... as I recall it came out at about the "right time" to have appeared to be a more or less direct response to the Adventist Today article that brought it to our attention first).

Of course, now I have more information on which to base my wonderment.... with the document we have seen in which the GC agreed in writing to support 3abn all around the world.... and the evidence we have seen that the GC also operates in the face of fiscal threats from one of the "financial supporters" they hold in common with 3abn.

In view of all we know now.... what else would/should we expect......

I could be wrong. But, I believe that Lee Boothby gave 3-ABN legal advice in regard to the defense of the IL tax case. If that is correct, it then is a fact that the LIBERTY article was written by an attorney involved in the case, and may be assumed, subject to challenge, that it is a op-ed piece written to influence public opinion to see 3-ABN in a favorable light.

That does not mean that his opinion should be rejected. On the contrary, his opinion does raise valid issues that should be considered. But, his article, in my opinion, also raises some other valid questions. As I recall the decision of Judge Rowe, she based her decision on factors not listed in the article, which Boothby totally ignores. In my thinking, a more objective analysis of her decision would have considered those issues. I consider those issues to be critically important.

[LaurenceD]

Liberty takes a stance, and portrays the issues, and cites laws and precidents very differently then most of those posting here. For that reason, I believe it is pertinent, and even a good rebuttal to the accusers of 3ABN regarding the tax case.

You'll have to forgive our good attorney, Lee Boothby, an experienced litigation and appellate court lawyer, who wrote that Liberty article in 2003, the year before the judgement was handed down to 3abn. The Case Law he cites obviously was rejected, and in all fairness, he never got a chance to read Judge Barbara Rowe's Recommendation for Disposition, and the even more pertinent Case Law cited at the hearing. I think Rowe summarized it best in 2004 by saying...

"Were I to recommend a grant of tax exemption for the majority of the property at issue, which is clearly a commercial enterprise, it would give applicant an unfair commercial advantage over other commercially owned and operated radio and television stations."

Do you not yet see the slippery slope 3abn was riding on? Really now, in all fairness, how could the state Office of Aministrative Hearings grant an exception to this corporation? 3abn had a weak case, and IMO was ill-advised to appeal the decision. A long shot at best. But, when gifted by a pro bono defense, why not shoot for the moon?

Clearly, 3abn was in violation of the land-use policies granted to NFP organizations...and loving it, apparently.

[watchbird]

A locked down compound?

Please cite the evidence to support this?

Do your research Aletheia.... it has been reported and discussed right here on BSDA.

Yes, an electronically "locked down" ... compound.... not merely literal "locks" on building doors, but also surveilance "locks" that go beyond mere security, and in the opinion of many, impinge on worker's rights to personal privacy.... even to communication with the "outside" from their own computers.

You know, Noah trusted in God for his protection, and built a boat. He didn't sit there and trust God would save him from the flood without his cooperation...

Agreed so far. Let's see how you apply it to different situations.....

What I find so sad and unreasonable in all this, is that none of you, not a one, thinks that the "alleged" victims of Tommy Shelton should trust in God for their protection and the protection of others, without doing anything.

Your assessment about what we think is correct. So what is there about this that you find "sad and unreasonable"? Is this not in harmony with the implications of the Noah story.

Not a one of you accusers of 3ABn thinks Linda Shelton should trust in God to protect her and her interests and reputation without you all becoming involved and seeking public redress, and feeling you need to defend her.

That is also correct. We believe that God uses other humans as his agents ... at the same time that we believe that it is God who works both through those efforts and directly through other means of which we have no direct knowledge. Is this not in harmony with the implications of the Noah story.

And not a one of you accusing 3ABN, who trust in God, believes that if these accusations are true He can bring down 3ABN, without your assistance and public exposure and works in this behalf.

That is not true. God is plenty able to wipe the whole place out without a human lifting a finger. We all recognize that. But at the same time, we recognize that our God is a gracious God, and he has pity on our weaknesses.... and He most often chooses to involve other humans in his works... both of mercy and of retribution.

God has pity on those who would be unduly distressed by sudden acts of destruction of evil.... especially when they have not known about the evil he is destroying. And so he enlightens some as to what needs to be exposed, and expects them to warn others.

And He also works through the various systems of governance which He has established on the earth for keeping order and protecting the weak against the strong, in order to accomplish whatever needs to be done.

[And where are God's people ever told to destroy a ministry, no matter how at fault or in error or sin you believe them to be? Who is the "cult" buster?]

In His Word..... you have been given many such scriptures over the time you have been with us on BSDA. There is no need to repeat them here. But in both Old and New Testaments, there are ample instructions on exposing sin and rooting it out to legitimize the type of work that is now sometimes labeled as "cult buster".

As far as prayers and telling God what is expected of him according to personal judgemnts goes? Look to the recent thread here and some of the public prayers here made by those who heard about 3Abns leaders joining together in fasting and prayer.

And what about the "prayers and telling God what is expected of him" on world wide TV? Prayers that were in themselves sermons and tirades against those who are attempting to follow God's commands to expose evil... and who are calling for admission of wrong-doing, repentance, reform, and restoration?

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocricy."-- Jesus Christ

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. "-- Jesus Christ

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees."

Very good admonition indeed. You would do well to heed it.

[erik]

Yes it is. There's a rather interesting and informative article which was published by Liberty magazine about this a couple years back. Liberty takes a stance, and portrays the issues, and cites laws and precidents very differently then most of those posting here. For that reason, I believe it is pertinent, and even a good rebuttal to the accusers of 3ABN regarding the tax case.

I haven't seen the article ever posted on BSDA, so for those interested:
It's rather lengthy. To read the entire article, go here:

LIBERTY - a magazine of religious freedom - "How Religious Was My Exemption?"

Aletheia,

I would love to see a follow-up of this article in the light of the 46 page ruling the judge handed down.

I would also point out the judge based her ruling not on the religous actives but what to her were clearly commercial mainly the selling of air time, the selling of linda's cd's, and the selling of sat. dishes, also the selling of books.

She also based her ruling on the lack of proof provide to her, of the charitable work of 3 abn, so i would say that is the lawyers for 3 abn fault.

Another clear problem for 3abn in her ruling is the lack of over site from the board of directors to danny and linda at the time, but with linda gone now that would leave danny, again this is error on the legal and accounting side of things.

the devil is in the details and clearly from reading the judges ruling 3abn lack details that they need to have in place to gain their expemtion, the other thing i would point the is the article cites case law from states that have no bearing on the state of illious, the ruling cites only the law and case law from her state makes a big difference.

I personally think with a little tighter legal and accounting controls 3abn would have won this case hands down, what is interesting is that the judge in her ruling told 3abn what they need to fix if they were listening, but i highly doubt that they have fixed those problems( has a side note maybe this had more to due with linda and that lawyer from the board leaving then we know at this time.)

Aletheia, based facts cited in the ruling it really looks like 3abn just expected god to step in and save their bacon, well maybe god wanted some things worked on.???????????????????


ERik

This post has been edited by erik: Feb 28 2007, 08:47 AM

[SoulEspresso]

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocricy."-- Jesus Christ

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. "-- Jesus Christ

Hmm .... well, the word hypocrite could mean "someone who says one thing and does another." I suppose not a person here is 100% consistent with their own ideals.

But Jesus Christ was the first teacher in history to use this word hypocrite in a religious sense.

It means "actor." As in "performer."

[awesumtenor]

Aletheia, based facts cited in the ruling it really looks like 3abn just expected god to step in and save their bacon, well maybe god wanted some things worked on.???????????????????
ERik

s/bacon/textured soy protein and wheat gluten bacon substitute

Gotta uphold the health message...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Noahswife]

My two cents.....

Watchbird and Observer, thank you for your information that adds to the back story of the Liberty article. I had read it after the ALJ's decision and wondered at several things but gave the author some slack for having written it before the decision was issued.

WWJD, your comments as to why LaurenceD would post the negative statement about Linda again demonstrates that you are not listening that many of us here do not know Linda, that we know she is human and has made mistakes and we are not totally biased. I think it is obvious to everyone why he tried to provide a balanced summary of what he read in the decision.

The statement made in the liberty article:

"But Danny and Linda Shelton, the 3ABN staff, and its millions of viewers all believe God is on their side and will make the difference in their struggle against state and local governmental authorities. "

I think reflects an interesting arrogance that can blind people to seeing both sides of a legal issue. So if I were a reader of Liberty and remembered this statement when the case was decided, what am I to think of what side God is on?

I think that they had no choice but to appeal this decision.

I think it is interesting that in other threads there has been discussion of how important it is for Danny to put money into the community for "good will" while some have argued that some supporters of 3abn might not approve of their donations being used in that way. Does anyone know when he began to do this?

Does anyone know what has happened in succeeding tax years? Have any changes been made and reapplication for an exemption been made?

Also, as was pointed out here at BSDA and in the Liberty article, this decision could have some impact for other organizations. Have ANY of those organizations assisted in the case or filed amicus briefs?

I think it would be interesting to know how often Linda's vote on the board was the same as DSs.

I think that one thing this case and the Liberty article demonstrate is that we all need a better understanding of the concepts of religious liberty and what rights are guaranteed by the 1st amendment.

nw

[erik]

s/bacon/textured soy protein and wheat gluten bacon substitute

Gotta uphold the health message...

In His service,
Mr. J

sorry you are correct, they thought god would save the stripples


Erik

[LaurenceD]

I think it is interesting that in other threads there has been discussion of how important it is for Danny to put money into the community for "good will" while some have argued that some supporters of 3abn might not approve of their donations being used in that way. Does anyone know when he began to do this?

This is key to several points that could be made. The other day, when DS was praising all his volunteers (and it sounds like most are, including staff) I began to wonder how and why he would donate money to his local HS athletic facility (someone explained that certain board members donate as much a 60K, intended for that cause) while his staff go w/o compensation.

It was interesting to note this in Judge Rowe's Recommendation...

Applicant has not established that it conducts charitable activities when it clearly has the resources to extend the use of the property and equipment on the property to charitable and/or religious entities at no cost. The record does not indicate that it did so.

It looks as though 3abn had the money to act as a charitable organization. I wonder what the volunteers think of all this ("sure, we'll do w/o so you can take care of the school").

One can't help but buy into a little conspiracy theorism here, as the larger picture begins to emerge. A school district nearby challenges it's tax exempt status, 3abn donates to a school district, and about this time...is this when marriage problems begin? It must have been a stressful time in their lives, and an eye-opener as the prayerful compound feels the decsion coming down on the side of justice, rather than on the side of what now can be seen in it's true light--favoritism.

Just my two cents...

[PeacefulBe]

Earlier in this thread a reference was made to another thread where folks were behaving as Pharisees, lifting their prayers in a public way. Is this the thread someone was referring to?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12644

If this was the thread, I would like to ask the one characterizing the group as Pharisees if those who gather for, say, a Wednesday night prayer meeting are being Pharisaical. How about those who were meeting in the Thompsonville Church as a group at the same time - do they qualify as Pharisees also?

Seven people joined in heartfelt prayer. Others came and read those prayers. Why are you criticizing this endeavor?

[watchbird]

This is key to several points that could be made. The other day, when DS was praising all his volunteers (and it sounds like most are, including staff) I began to wonder how and why he would donate money to his local HS athletic facility (someone explained that certain board members donate as much a 60K, intended for that cause) while his staff go w/o compensation.

It was interesting to note this in Judge Rowe's Recommendation...

Applicant has not established that it conducts charitable activities when it clearly has the resources to extend the use of the property and equipment on the property to charitable and/or religious entities at no cost. The record does not indicate that it did so.

It looks as though 3abn had the money to act as a charitable organization. I wonder what the volunteers think of all this ("sure, we'll do w/o so you can take care of the school").

One can't help but buy into a little conspiracy theorism here, as the larger picture begins to emerge. A school district nearby challenges it's tax exempt status, 3abn donates to a school district, and about this time...is this when marriage problems begin? It must have been a stressful time in their lives, and an eye-opener as the prayerful compound feels the decsion coming down on the side of justice, rather than on the side of what now can be seen in it's true light--favoritism.

Just my two cents...

Yes... and you also might note that there are two communities involved.... one to which Danny donates.... and which has only good words to say about him.... and the other to whom he will not even pay taxes.... which is, if I have my geography straight, even closer to him, and which..... well the Adventist Today article covering Thompsonville is scheduled for a future time... but you can find a good deal about it right here on BSDA.

And there is more. But.....you do so well at digging up and fitting pieces of the puzzle together.... I almost hate to deprive you of the thrill of discovery by suggesting another clue.... "almost"..... ... but..... just can't resist.....


With Judge Rowe's comments in mind, take another look at The Televangelist... in particular the part that tells of a donation for a "sanctuary" museum. Then with that in mind, take another stroll through the "Unauthorized History" (I think you will find it in the "guided tour") and/or use the search facility, to locate more details of this story... including discussions on it... and I think you will find some interesting connections between the sanctuary story, the beginning of the Thompsonville SDA church being located on 3abn property, housed in a 3abn building.... and the comments of Judge Rowe.

Carry on.......... ...........................

[LaurenceD]

hummmm....you're not saying....no, you're not saying.

You've obviously thought about this before. Are you hiding any other pieces of the puzzle? I can't help but wonder what all is not being said, and by whom. It must be ammusing, and/or devastating, for them to see pieces only they know about coming together. Could be wrong though.


:shrug:

[Aletheia]

Earlier in this thread a reference was made to another thread where folks were behaving as Pharisees, lifting their prayers in a public way. Is this the thread someone was referring to?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12644

If this was the thread, I would like to ask the one characterizing the group as Pharisees if those who gather for, say, a Wednesday night prayer meeting are being Pharisaical. How about those who were meeting in the Thompsonville Church as a group at the same time - do they qualify as Pharisees also?

Seven people joined in heartfelt prayer. Others came and read those prayers. Why are you criticizing this endeavor?

Yeah, since you're drawing more attention to it, that's the thread.


In answer to your questions: Posting prayers in a public internet forum is public; whereas, meeting together, or in fellowship, at a Church behind closed doors, whether for worship, prayer meeting on Wednesday night, or a special prayer session, is a private assembly.

PB, I suggest you read again what I wrote, then note I said "some". People know what they prayed for, and others can see that also... If the criteria doesn't fit you, then why take offense, and jump up here yelping like you've been hit by a rock?

What do you think Jesus meant by the following? ( you don't have to answer, unless you choose to. The question is rhetorical and meant for all to consider)

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet,[a secret or private place] and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."-- Jesus Christ
(And yes-- the word translated into English as Hypocrite in the ancient Greek did mean actor, or pretender, as in: on a stage, or in a play. --as someone here pointed out)

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 28 2007, 04:09 PM

[Bystander]

This is key to several points that could be made. The other day, when DS was praising all his volunteers (and it sounds like most are, including staff) I began to wonder how and why he would

Just my two cents...

You couldn't be more wrong. 3abn's volunteers are mostly older retired people that have moved to the area or are just passing through in their campers and will stop for several weeks, or months. There are approx 150 people on the payroll with about 40 more internationally, Such as the 3abn Russia complex. It takes all of those people and the volunteers to do what has to be done to run a network of this size + it just keeps expanding into different countries, whether by radio, satellite or internet, and praise God for it. People all over the world are hearing the 3angels message that have never heard it before. Letters come from Irac, bagdad, africa, honduras,india, from people that have become sda's by watching 3abn. God is so good. Now a deal has been signed with Verizon. I don't understand all the details but if you have directv through verizon or if verizon is your internet carrier you will be able to get 3abn on your tv or internet. (I think I have that right.) With verizon as a carrier, 3abn will have the potential to reach several million more viewers with the gospel. We appreciate our volunteers but most are paid workers.