The True Version Of 3abn Options

[watchbird]

Their website is http://www.secondwindsf.org/.

You can see the video at http://progressiveadventism.com/2006/12/06...iritual-affair/.

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but one key problem I recall is this: Find out what someone else thinks is right rather than tell them what is right, and then hold them accountable to their own standard. Somehow it seems to me that that is a huge departure from biblical Christianity and the three angels' messages.

And excuse me: I have a problem with folks who lost their ministry over having an affair blaming everyone else for the aftermath.

It also doesn't appear that Greg and Shasta are giving any instruction to their group (instruction would be contrary to not telling people what is right) in what the Bible teaches about adornment, or what the Bible says about the penalty of "going after strange flesh."

Thank you for the link to the video. One wonders whether they will ever recover their own spiritual equilibrium and "come to themselves" and truly repent of the evil they have done. Certainly, if nothing else this gives us a glimpse into the world of "spirituality" and the "common thread" running through all false religions... which is a worship of self in the place of God.

God created us as individuals, with the responsibility to make choices between right and wrong, good and evil.... and with those choices comes the opportunity to know the joy of acceptance, both by the "ecclesia" the "called out ones", and by the God who made and loves them and wants to fellowship with them... both individually and in communion with each other and Him. But with the making of evil choices, the truth that God loves all, sinners and saints both, becomes transformed into the lies of Satan... that man can be healed by looking within themselves and find acceptance among those who likewise build their "spiritual houses" on the shifting sands of their own mound of sins... terribly sad. Terribly tragic.

Fortunately, while there is life there is hope, and Greg and Shasta are still alive. I cannot help but think of another Adventist pastor who made a different but similar choice and also moved to San Francisco... though not into a ministry.... who later recovered himself and returned from the "Far Country". Will Greg and Shasta ever make the same return journey? Or will they succeed in supporting themselves... and finding enough others to affirm them... to seal their final end with the flattering calluses of self-affirming spirituality.

We can only wait and pray.

[Carmel]

Their website is http://www.secondwindsf.org/.

You can see the video at http://progressiveadventism.com/2006/12/06...iritual-affair/.

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but one key problem I recall is this: Find out what someone else thinks is right rather than tell them what is right, and then hold them accountable to their own standard. Somehow it seems to me that that is a huge departure from biblical Christianity and the three angels' messages.

And excuse me: I have a problem with folks who lost their ministry over having an affair blaming everyone else for the aftermath.

It also doesn't appear that Greg and Shasta are giving any instruction to their group (instruction would be contrary to not telling people what is right) in what the Bible teaches about adornment, or what the Bible says about the penalty of "going after strange flesh."

Thank you, Pickle, it is indeed very sobering and disturbing video. I need some time to recuperate.

My heart is bleeding to see such a deception, thinking that you can rise above God Himself, above His Law, His Word, and His Love...when you replace it with all-including humanistic ideas... and think that you don't have to answer anybody for anything. Very disturbing.

No, I don't believe Dwight is supporting all of it, but I am sorry to say, I see some of those strange ideas in his teachings as well. He is desperatly reaching for God's mercy lately, and we all need that, no question, but there IS a place for publicly denouncing a public sin as well (not only his brother's), or teaching that there IS such a thing called SIN, and what it is!


Carmel

This post has been edited by Carmel: Mar 20 2007, 08:01 PM

[Carmel]

. terribly sad. Terribly tragic.

Fortunately, while there is life there is hope, and Greg and Shasta are still alive. I cannot help but think of another Adventist pastor who made a different but similar choice and also moved to San Francisco... though not into a ministry.... who later recovered himself and returned from the "Far Country". Will Greg and Shasta ever make the same return journey? Or will they succeed in supporting themselves... and finding enough others to affirm them... to seal their final end with the flattering calluses of self-affirming spirituality.

We can only wait and pray.

I honestly pray for their return as well.

(And I pray that the positive influence in pastor Dwight Nelson's life will prevail over those of "other nations". )


Carmel

This post has been edited by Carmel: Mar 20 2007, 08:02 PM

[awesumtenor]

Diane correct me if I am wrong, but you know nothing about this and have talked to zero people about this???

You are wrong... and the question to you, when you said Johann was lying remains unanswered, Cindy... were *you* there and involved in the conversation with Johann, DS, WT et al? Bystander already admitted he saw it from a distance... but he was not part of the conversation.

Were you there?

Yes or No.

If the answer is 'no'... and given your statements that you have never met nor spoken to DS, it would have to be 'no'...unless of course you were lying when you said that... then you are not in a position to say Johann is lying about anything. You have the prerogative to not believe him... but your choosing to do so makes him neither wrong nor a liar...

So why is it your business? Why do you constantly butt into my conversations and concerns and tell me to stop posting till I read or comprehend. It's not necessary and it's rude.

If you don't want people "butting into your conversations"... dont converse in a public forum.

I am trying my best to be being polite to the others I am talking to

For very small values of polite...

I am not breaking any forum rules to the best of my knowledge,

Others would beg to differ.

and I do my best to ignore most of the negative criticisms and false accusations posted about me to try and keep focussed on the subjects, and not have personal arguments, and that is not easy to do.

Here's an idea... stop making negative criticisms and false accusations of others and you wont be measured by the same measure you mete...

I do not insult your intelligence and I wish you'd stop insulting mine, please. Surely it's up to Johann if he wants to discuss this?

Cindy you insult the intelligence of every reader in this forum that does not explicitly conform to your perspective every day with impunity.. so lose the indignation; it does not become you and you don't wear it well.

That's all I have to say about this.

Until, of course, the next time...

In His service,
Mr. J

[PrincessDrRe]

Thank you Ralph for seeing the whole picture and quoting thus in your post on page 9.
Spinners unite!

You have to be kidding? What was done to you was wrong, wrong , wrong. You know that, I am sure it must have crushed your spirit to a great extent and I for one am sorry that any "christians" would treat a young person like that. But then to turn around and say I want the same for DS? That is like saying "I was beat as a child so I want to see other children beat the same way I was."
Extremely strange view for someone going into counseling.

As for the above:

It was not wrong. It was RIGHT. However it was not done in LOVE in my church. "IT" has not been done fairly within the SDA Church. That aside.

Danny Shelton needs to go through what is done in our church to adulters and those that fornicate.
Tommy Shelton needs to go through what is done in our church/by law to rapist/molesters.

1. Danny Shelton has divorced a woman for "no reason". Thus per the SDA Church he should not minister, be on the books as a member, preach, teach, lead Pathfinders, or claim "office" until he has confessed and been rebaptized pubically.

2. Danny Shelton married another woman under "false pretense" and was "seeing" said woman before the divorce took place. Thus per the SDA Church he should not minister, be on the books as a member, preach, teach, lead Pathfinders, or claim "office" until he has confessed and been rebaptized pubically.

3. Tommy Shelton molested children. Thus per the law of the land he should be prosecuted. Just because you "apologize" does not mean that you are not held to the law of the land.

As for attacking me through my profession (as I already AM a Therapist) I teach that consequences come from actions. How do we change our consequences? Change the actions that take place before them!

What are the consequences of your actions?

Post #133 - Ralph made it plain.

Spin, Spin, SPIN!

[Clay]

Thank you, Pickle, it is indeed very sobering and disturbing video. I need some time to recuperate.

My heart is bleeding to see such a deception, thinking that you can rise above God Himself, above His Law, His Word, and His Love...when you replace it with all-including humanistic ideas... and think that you don't have to answer anybody for anything. Very disturbing.

No, I don't believe Dwight is supporting all of it, but I am sorry to say, I see some of those strange ideas in his teachings as well. He is desperatly reaching for Gods mercy lately, and we all need that, no question, but there IS a place for publicly denouncing a public sin as well (not only his brothers), or teaching that there IS such a thing called SIN, and what it is!
Carmel

saw the video.... why is it disturbing? Are we assuming that God interacts with all of us in the same exact way? God saves us individually..... not corporately......

[Bystander]

saw the video.... why is it disturbing? Are we assuming that God interacts with all of us in the same exact way? God saves us individually..... not corporately......

I am at a loss here not knowing these people and their ministry. Can someone fill me in please?

[Pickle]

True, God saves us individually. But that's different than saying that each of us decides for ourselves what salvation IS, and what THE standard IS.

Spiritualism teaches "that man is the creature of progression; that it is his destiny from his birth to progress, even to eternity, toward the Godhead." And again: "Each mind will judge itself and not another." "The judgment will be right, because it is the judgment of self. . . . The throne is within you."

(GC 554)

Thus we apparently see on that video the approach of spiritualism rather than the biblical gospel.

[Clay]

I am at a loss here not knowing these people and their ministry. Can someone fill me in please?

on this point I am in agreement with your BS......

[Pickle]

I am at a loss here not knowing these people and their ministry. Can someone fill me in please?

Greg was pastor at Union College, and he and his wife, and Shasta and her husband, went to the northwest to start up a church in the city. They didn't stay on the straight and narrow, lost their jobs, and eventually married. Shasta was on the pastoral staff for awhile of a church in southern California prior to that.

Greg is Dwight's brother.

[Clay]

True, God saves us individually. But that's different than saying that each of us decides for ourselves what salvation IS, and what THE standard IS.
Thus we apparently see on that video the approach of spiritualism rather than the biblical gospel.

you see it that way.... I would say that the church cannot define either salvation or what the standard is..... biblical gospel tells me that the Holy Spirit will lead and guide me into all truth and into relationship with The Creator.... thus I see where you are coming from but I would not label the video spiritualism....

[Bystander]

Greg was pastor at Union College, and he and his wife, and Shasta and her husband, went to the northwest to start up a church in the city. They didn't stay on the straight and narrow, lost their jobs, and eventually married. Shasta was on the pastoral staff for awhile of a church in southern California prior to that.

Greg is Dwight's brother.

So what about their ministry now and this video you are talking about. Who made it and what is the basic message of it?

[watchbird]

you see it that way.... I would say that the church cannot define either salvation or what the standard is..... biblical gospel tells me that the Holy Spirit will lead and guide me into all truth and into relationship with The Creator.... thus I see where you are coming from but I would not label the video spiritualism....

I would also not label the video "spiritualism". Ellen used several labels to designate various types of error and false doctrine.... spiritualism was only one of those.

Scripture, besides assuring us that he Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth, also makes it plain that there are ways that "seem right to a man" but the "end thereof is death". It also puts a condition on the guiding of the Holy Spirit.... that we have to have an attitude of wanting to do His will before we can expect Him to lead us into His will.

If you will examine the ministry website, you will find no mention of anything that might be construed as being even a hint of their mission being to lead people to God.... or to even suggest that individuals have to be willing to be lead of God before He will lead them. What you find is the total acceptance of all religions in the world on equal basis and total acceptance for whatever those who come think about things of a spiritual nature.... not only as a place to start... but as a belief system within which to set their goals for "healing" and developing their "spirituality".

The various speeches reminded me VERY much of the New Age materials that I read a few years ago... some being by Christians who had seen the error of the narrow strictures of "organized religion" and were correcting that by preaching a gospel of "do your own thing" be "faithful to your own inner desires".... and let the chips fall where they may..... no matter who else gets hurt in the process.

[sonshineonme]

So what about their ministry now and this video you are talking about. Who made it and what is the basic message of it?

BS, I would suggest you watch it and it will tell you both answers you have asked.
It's better to determine this yourself, I think.

In case you haven't seen it, here is the link
http://progressiveadventism.com/2006/12/06...iritual-affair/

and www.secondwindsf.org

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Mar 20 2007, 12:31 PM

[Clay]

WB said....

The various speeches reminded me VERY much of the New Age materials that I read a few years ago... some being by Christians who had seen the error of the narrow strictures of "organized religion" and were correcting that by preaching a gospel of "do your own thing" be "faithful to your own inner desires".... and let the chips fall where they may..... no matter who else gets hurt in the process.

yeah now I can see that....