The True Version Of 3abn Options

[Aletheia]

Ok, since Johan won't say anything, I will. How in the.....world.....do you know? According to you youjust met Bystander a couple of months ago, and according to him, he is at lest second hand information(Cuz he is not and doesnt' talk to Danny). You didn't know anybody when that event occurred accoarding to you. Are you lying? How can you tell somecody who was there what they experienced, if you weren't even there yourself. You cant tell him what he experienced if you were they. You can only testify to what you experienced, but you don't even have that. You need to let this go or tell the truth, because, right now, it looks as if you ahve told at least one lie.

Diane,

I didn't get it from Bystander.

There are already three first person acounts of this right here on this forum.

Johanns - as well as many later additions and explanations which I found by searching the archives.
Walt Thompsons
And the Doctors which I quoted in part above.



I simply read them, many others were there at the time, so I simply asked others what they saw and heard, and in every instance they related it as Walt Thompson said, and even tho his account is sketchy also as the Doctor said, and NOT as Johann says.

end of story.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 19 2007, 03:40 PM

[princessdi]

Naw, cindy that is You jumped out the gate on that one, like you were there, sister gurl!, not like somebody who read three accounts of the same event and came to a conclusion about who's you believed. If that was the case you should have said according to WT account of the incident.............and went on from there. Something is not right about this, but you know what you do in the dark.........

Diane,

I didn't get it from Bystander.

There are already three first person acounts of this right here on this forum.

Johanns - as well as many later additions and explanations which I found by searching the archives.
Walt Thompsons
And the Doctors which I quoted in part above.
I simply read them, many others were there at the time, so i simply I asked others what they saw and heard, and in every instance they related it as Walt Thompson said and even tho his account is sketchy even as the Doctor said, and NOT as Johann says.

end of story.

[Aletheia]

Naw, cindy that is You jumped out the gate on that one, like you were there, sister gurl!, not like somebody who read three accounts of the same event and came to a conclusion about who's you believed. If that was the case you should have said according to WT account of the incident.............and went on from there. Something is not right about this, but you know what you do in the dark.........

You have got to be kidding, right?

How is it you don't remember me posting this, and your response?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry177554

[Seraphim7]

Naw, cindy that is You jumped out the gate on that one... Something is not right about this, but you know what you do in the dark.........

I guess this is where we'd say "wooooah nellie" or should that be "cindy"?

[princessdi]

You are missing my point. Remember comprehension is key "before" typing. I am not saying that you didn't read the accounts, I am commenting on the way you cpmstradicted Johann and his account when you weren't there. You did not talk like the someone who posted that information and was still asking questions. Because that is what you were doing in the post you referenced. You had not read all of the information then, and you were asking someone to give you the information instead of researching it yourself. IOW, spoon feed it to you. But you know I think you found somebody to do that. So now you are all up in Johann's face about what happened, when a little over a month ago you had no clue. That's what I am talking about.

You have got to be kidding, right?

How is it you don't remember me posting this, and your response?

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry177554

[Noahswife]

I was tempted to write a reply, when I remember that Jesus did not answer His accusers. I am also reminded of the words of Jesus, "Get thee behind me, satan." I leave it to the Lord to do with your twisting as He pleases. Pray about it. Is this the best you can do? May the Lord have mercy on you in His day of Judgment.

Johann,

It continues to amaze me that there are those who even now still do not "get it" that each poster here at BSDA has developed a reputation and everything he or she writes or opinion they give in a post is viewed through the "glasses" of that reputation.

In addition and IMO, no amount of spinning or whining or demanding is going to change that reputation at this point or the weight given to anything she or he have to say except by those that agree with him or her.

nw
C"i"

[Carmel]

Carmel,

Are you sure Dwight is "supporting" his brother? And his new "ministry"? The video called ("A Spiritual Affair") someone did on that new "ministry" is really a shocker, I think. I'd find it hard to believe Dwight would "support" that.

I did not see that video (How can I obtain one?), and the only information I have about it is from Dwight himself through one of his sermons I listened.

Yes, that was the impression he left on us, talking about the ministry in positive terms. He didn't use the words: "I support my brother in his marriage or his ministry", but I remember that the whole sermon was build so he could tell us of his visit to his brother and his new wife, and about their new ministry. I don't remember he told us what kind of ministry they have, but it was clear that they are in "saving peoples lives" ministry.

We were more than shocked, and very disappointed that day.

However, Dwight Nelson is known for changing his views depending on the wind, so maybe, by now, he has changed his position on that too.



Carmel

[Aletheia]

You are missing my point. Remember comprehension is key "before" typing. I am not saying that you didn't read the accounts, I am commenting on the way you cpmstradicted Johann and his account when you weren't there. You did not talk like the someone who posted that information and was still asking questions. Because that is what you were doing in the post you referenced. You had not read all of the information then, and you were asking someone to give you the information instead of researching it yourself. IOW, spoon feed it to you. But you know I think you found somebody to do that. So now you are all up in Johann's face about what happened, when a little over a month ago you had no clue. That's what I am talking about.

Diane your repetative put downs and false assumptions are just wrong.

I brought this up long before the post I just referenced, and knew soon after all that had happened.

I was asking for 2 reasons.

1. As an appeal to Johanns conscience to come clean

2. To warn others not to be deceived.

That's the same reason I keep asking him about the watch story and the picture his friend sky posted for him, I already know the facts, but for some reason he refuses to be accountable and come clean there either...

Now neither you, nor anyone else has to like it, or believe it, but that's the truth and God is my witness.

later--

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 19 2007, 04:37 PM

[Johann]

Diane your repetative put downs and false assumptions are just wrong.

I brought this up long before the post I just referenced, and knew soon after all that had happened.

I was asking for 2 reasons.

1. As an appeal to Johanns conscience to come clean

2. To warn others not to be deceived.

That's the same reason I keep asking him about the watch story and the picture his friend sky posted for him, I already know the facts, but for some reason he refuses to be accountable and come clean there either...

Now neither you, nor anyone else has to like it, or believe it, but that's the truth and God is my witness.

later--

Again, please read Rev. 3:18!

You keep me from answering you because when I do you spin my words around and claim I say something I never did say. If I could depend on you, it would be a different story.

This post has been edited by Johann: Mar 19 2007, 05:18 PM

[watchbird]

This is actually ..... but in view of the direction Carmel went in her response to this portion of my previous post, I want to make it clear exactly what I was saying.... and what I was NOT saying.... when I said.....

Dwight has been fully informed as to the problems with him and his church appearing to support a "ministry" that is as immoral and unethical as Danny Shelton's is.... but for reasons better known to himself than to those who have tried to talk with him, including members of his congregation, his peers, or his superiors.... he continues to lend his image to the bolstering of 3abn's image.

..... for Carmel seems to have assumed that I was referring to certain problems in Dwight's own family.... which I was not.

I was referring merely to what I know to be fact, that some have talked with Dwight in a one-on-one situation about the unadvisability of him not only continuing to show Pioneer Church on 3abn, but also to host 3abn events at that church. Some of these have been from each of the various classifications of individuals I gave above. To the best of my knowledge, the only reason Dwight has for not severing his connections with 3abn is that he feels that he is providing an important ministry to persons whose main attachment to the Adventist church is through the church service at Pioneer Memorial church from week to week. And I personally know such persons, so have to admit that he has a valid point in doing that.

I was NOT meaning to imply that Dwight was "soft on sin".... either in generalizations or in the specific example of sin in his own family that he has had to learn to live with.

Should we be surprised by this?

Whether we should be surprised or not should have nothing to do with his very painful experience with his brother's choices. I am very sorry you brought this up, but since you did, I think is only right that I challenge some of your statments that I think are unnecessarily harsh about Dwight, and that I do not think represents his true relationship to the affair.

Some time ago, Dwight Nelson incorporated the story about his brother Gregory Nelson and his "new wife" Shasta in his sermon.

(For those who don't know, Gregory Nelson left his college girlfriend and wife of many years, Cindy, and their 3 teenage kids (who begged him not to do that!) for a "new girl on the block"- Shasta Burr, "a famous announcer to Dwight Nelson's NET '98").

It took him some time to say that his brother and his ... new wife..... Shasta now have new "ministry", but after that he went on to say:

"Read my lips... LIFE GOES ON!!" and repeated it few times!!!

It sure does, for some more than for others. Ask Gregory's wife Cindy and their kids...

Please... let's note that this came hard for him... and that it was a long time after the event before he could talk about it and be able to say the words.... "Life goes on".

It is hardly fair to a man whose twin brother.... as well as brother in ministry.... failed in his vows to both his wife and his church so miserably.... in spite of all that Dwight and others could do to turn him from his course... to say that Dwight "is supporting his brother in his immorality". It is my understanding that Dwight labored to prevent his brother's actions... and also that Dwight not only refused to perform the marriage service, but would not even attend the event.

But the hard facts of life are that life does go on.... and we have to accept things as they are once there is no hope of changing the course of events.

Now, how can Dwight Nelson who is supporting his brother in his immorality say anything against Danny Shelton and his immorality. He thinks that life goes on, we can sit back and the Lord is going to take care of everything...

John the Baptist lost his very life denouncing the adulterous relationship of a man in authorithy within the community of God's people. And he, as the second Elijah is the type of those who today are preparing the way for Christ's second coming.

I may add, Dwight likes to preach on that very subject - the coming of Elijah - and I gladly join his plea for Elijah's soon coming. As Ellen White would call: "Where are the Elijahs of today?" 5T 527

Carmel

Agreed... at the same time it is not appropriate to compare the Greg Nelson situation and the Danny Shelton situation. Greg and his wife... both ministers.... are now out of ministry and out of the Adventist circle. Danny continues as the "face of Adventism" in a world wide "ministry". He has made more broken lives even than Greg has done.... and while we have to accept that he and Brandi are now married... that does not mean that he should not be removed completely from 3abn and allowed to have no more influence over it, and receive no more benefit from it.... ever. 3abn needs to go back to the true owners.... those multitudinous donors in the pews, and be run by a board that is truly committed to running a Christian ministry in a Christian manner. And Danny needs to be removed from the public eye and from public contact so he can make his decisions as to morality or immorality in some private corner of the world where no one will know and where he will not have any influence on anyone anywhere.

[Johann]

- - -

I was NOT meaning to imply that Dwight was "soft on sin".... either in generalizations or in the specific example of sin in his own family that he has had to learn to live with.

- - -

Thank you for the information you have given.

Just a couple of hours ago I attended a seminar with Dwight Nelson and other "top" pastors. I did not make notes, but I'm quoting from memory. There was a question and answer period, and one of the questions was something like, What is the worst experience you have had in your ministry? and another, Does it happen that you have to make corrections later to what you have said in a sermon?

Dwight admitted he had, and he gave us a couple of samples. Then he added that a preacher must never think so highly of himself as a super person who never makes a mistake. It is when you are willing to admit your mistakes that people discover you are human and then they accept your message.

There was a discussion on preaching from a manuscript or not. Dwight thought that could be even worse, because if you have a manuscript and misread, then you might get really lost.

This post has been edited by Johann: Mar 19 2007, 05:12 PM

[Aletheia]

Again, please read Rev. 3:18!

You keep me from answering you because when I do you spin my words around and claim I say something I never. If I could depend on you, it would be a different story.

Ok, Johann.

How about this? I'll start a thread with what you have said about the Watch and the circumstances of it being given to Linda etc. - and by that I mean it will be quotes, only your words, with no interpretation or spin by me, and then after you see the quotes, you can tell me if that is correct or not, and whether anything needs to be corrected.

Only after doing so, will we proceed. Does that sound fair to you? and are you willing to do that?

~ Aletheia

[Johann]

Ok, Johann.

How about this? I'll start a thread with what you have said about the Watch and the circumstances of it being given to Linda etc. - and by that I mean it will be quotes, only your words, with no interpretation or spin by me, and then after you see the quotes, you can tell me if that is correct or not, and whether anything needs to be corrected.

Only after doing so, will we proceed. Does that sound fair to you? and are you willing to do that?

~ Aletheia

If I was the only one who thinks you spin, then I might have to agree with Danny Shelton that I suffer from Alzheimer's. But you have twisted both my words and the words of others so many times that I have no trust left in you handling matters decently.

[princessdi]

Now, why would he answer you and you already call him a liar? How could you know the facts without him telling you? If you know the facts, the why ask him at all? This is exactly what I am saying Cindy. You are questioning him about events at which you were not present, but he was, yet and still calling him a liar. You have no business asking him anything as if you "know the truth" you don't. You know what somebody else told you was the truth. You were not there. Remember there are always three(3) sides to a story: two sides and the truth. You have chosen to believe the account of someone who may or may not have been there( since you say we don't know who your source is). That is all you can claim is that you have heard this version and for some reason find it more credible than Johann own experience. You can't state that you "know the truth" and that he is not coming clean. You are demonstrating exactly what I am talking about. Now, if you believe have already chosen the version of the story you believe, then stick to that. You name is not God or Holy Spirit, it is not your place to comdemn or convict one to repentence.

Now to what put downs are you referring? I have said for you not to respond unless you comprehend what is being said in the post. That is not a put down, it is the truth. Because you have told me I was wrong, then went on to demonstrate my point exactly.

Diane your repetative put downs and false assumptions are just wrong.

I brought this up long before the post I just referenced, and knew soon after all that had happened.

I was asking for 2 reasons.

1. As an appeal to Johanns conscience to come clean

2. To warn others not to be deceived.

That's the same reason I keep asking him about the watch story and the picture his friend sky posted for him, I already know the facts, but for some reason he refuses to be accountable and come clean there either...

Now neither you, nor anyone else has to like it, or believe it, but that's the truth and God is my witness.

later--

[Aletheia]

If I was the only one who thinks you spin, then I might have to agree with Danny Shelton that I suffer from Alzheimer's. But you have twisted both my words and the words of others so many times that I have no trust left in you handling matters decently.

I have no trust of you either, but here we are in front of a bunch of witnesses, most of them hostile to myself, what can I do to you?

I have said I'll only quote you, and I'll supply the references. That way it will l be obvious to all what you have said, and if I have misquoted you.

You may add to, take away, or correct anything you spoke in error before we proceed, or you can confirm all as true and accurate, and you are obviously free to leave the discussion at anytime.