The True Version Of 3abn Options

[GrammieTana]

Even though I am not a big supporter of jewelry, there is much too be said for some of the opinions I have read here. Why is your ring worse than my cuff links or tie pin. The same for women wearing make up. If I see a woman all made up like Jezebel, yes, I admit, it gives me a bad impression, but normal make up wear I see nothing wrong with. Women get a bad rap on this subject all the way around. Some men might not believe in make up but they themselves might wear a rug....What is the difference. You could say it is all vanity and vexation of the spirit right? It is all an attempt to look nicer. JMO but there is an awful lot of gray area and fine lines with what is ok and what is not. As I said, even though As an adventist I am not to fond of wearing jewelry but when I find myself in a position to try to explain why this is ok, but this is not, I am left stuttering and stammering.

Well, for once I agree with you, Bystander!

Well said, BS!!

At least he's got his head in the right place on this issue, princessdi.

Thats cos the basis of our doctrine is based on sand and 19th century biases

Isn't that the truth, Denny!

Princessdi: Can you get this topic moved to another thread? (Maybe to Clay's PrincessDrRe's thread, 'Are we a cult'?) Sorry Re!

JT

This post has been edited by JustTana: Mar 21 2007, 12:39 PM

[princessdi]

You are not the only one at fault. Lee asked several posts ago for us to get back on topic. Ok BOT everyone, including myself..........

[Noahswife]

I no longer expect to see the jewelry/make-up guard just outside the gates of heaven...

Wish i had said that!

but it appears that others also have feelings on this topic!!! OK - I'm done!

[PeacefulBe]

Thats cos the basis of our doctrine is based on sand and 19th century biases

Denny,
Ouch! Perhaps I could agree with you if you had said "Thats cos the interpretation of our doctrine..." IMO, I am very comfortable with most of the doctrine this denomination holds.

Di,
Oh, would that I had been a fly upon that church platform on that fiesty Sabbath morn!

Recently, a sister in my local Sabbath School related the story of how her nephew, a small, sweet but typical 13-year-old rebel, attended a youth function at a smaller SDA church in our area. Nature called and he visited the little teenage-boys-room. As he tried to exit said room, he found the door being held shut from the outside. He pushed and pushed, not aware that a white-haired elderly gentleman was blocking the door. When the teen's panic began to get the better of him and he started to yell for help, the "gentleman" allowed the door to open but then ripped, get that, ripped the small pierced earring from this youth's ear, causing it to bleed quite severely. Why? He felt it was his duty to remove this sinful item. The pastor told the mom that what the man had done to her son was assault and she was free to file a complaint with the police. She, though shaken, and her son decided it best to forgive and move on - literally. This is an example of how not to woo our youth into a relationship with our Lord, IMO.

As I poured over Isaiah 3 this morning, it appears to this older woman that the point of this chapter is not so much an early rendition of our current SDA standards but is, instead, refering to God's children living in a state of apostasy. This nation, who were "circumcised"or sanctified - set apart - from others by their relationship with the Lord had, once again lost their spiritual connection and were focusing on the superficial and earthly things for their identity.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that stewardship is important and will often expose where our heart and focus lies. I don't personally have any desire to wear jewelry other than the occasional brooch to hold something in place, but I believe our personal and corporate emphasis should be the soul and not the skin. Focusing on the latter tends to cause bleeding.

PB

I know this is off topic but I really wanted to add my 2 cents.



Di,

Sorry. It took me forever to jot my thoughts down so I didn't see your orders.

[Snoopy]

I know this is off topic but I really wanted to add my 2 cents.
Di,

Sorry. It took me forever to jot my thoughts down so I didn't see your orders.

....me too...

...although, this discussion has been very helpful to me...thanks y'all...

[princessdi]

No Problem PB. it seems we may not be finished with this subject. I will try to get it split later today when I have more time, or if Calvin or Clay has time before me.

In the 21st century??? He did that to that child?!!!! Your sister and nephew are more forgiving than I would have been! Did anyone take any action? Maybe it was that same church my Mom and Pop visited...they had issues. LOL!!!

Denny,
Ouch! Perhaps I could agree with you if you had said "Thats cos the interpretation of our doctrine..." IMO, I am very comfortable with most of the doctrine this denomination holds.

Di,
Oh, would that I had been a fly upon that church platform on that fiesty Sabbath morn!

Recently, a sister in my local Sabbath School related the story of how her nephew, a small, sweet but typical 13-year-old rebel, attended a youth function at a smaller SDA church in our area. Nature called and he visited the little teenage-boys-room. As he tried to exit said room, he found the door being held shut from the outside. He pushed and pushed, not aware that a white-haired elderly gentleman was blocking the door. When the teen's panic began to get the better of him and he started to yell for help, the "gentleman" allowed the door to open but then ripped, get that, ripped the small pierced earring from this youth's ear, causing it to bleed quite severely. Why? He felt it was his duty to remove this sinful item. The pastor told the mom that what the man had done to her son was assault and she was free to file a complaint with the police. She, though shaken, and her son decided it best to forgive and move on - literally. This is an example of how not to woo our youth into a relationship with our Lord, IMO.

[PeacefulBe]

No Problem PB. it seems we may not be finished with this subject. I will try to get it split later today when I have more time, or if Calvin or Clay has time before me.

In the 21st century??? He did that to that child?!!!! Your sister and nephew are more forgiving than I would have been! Did anyone take any action? Maybe it was that same church my Mom and Pop visited...they had issues. LOL!!!

Di, it was a fellow member type sister. I believe the elderly gentleman was thoroughly admonished by the pastor and/or elders of the error of his ways. I don't know if he has learned his lesson or not. Hope so.

[Pickle]

I guess I Really do not understand the big deal, if her chain was gold what is the big deal, if it was not, whats the big deal.
Erik

The big deal is when critics dishonestly hide the fact that she was wearing a pocket watch. She never condemned the wearing of a pocket watch, and I don't think Spurgeon, Wesley, or Finney did either.

The airbrushing referred by Observer I believe does not have to do with Ellen White.

What Jesus testified in the 19th century is not based on sand anymore than what He testified back when he was here on earth, or by His Spirit through Paul or Peter or any of the other Bible writers.

We must be careful that we do not make of none effect what He has said. We don't want to make of none effect the commandments of God through our tradition or through any other means, regardless of the topic, whether it be adornment, lying, adultery, or stealing.

And at the same time we'd better be careful that we don't offend the little ones.

This post has been edited by Pickle: Mar 21 2007, 01:16 PM

[YogusBearus]

I don't really want to jump into this one because I think it reinforces the old "majoring in minors" problems we've had. I would however suggest that before you take to strong a stand on the "airbrushing" references, that you go to the GC vault to view the original pictures.



Just a suggestion...



-Yogi

The big deal is when critics dishonestly hide the fact that she was wearing a pocket watch. She never condemned the wearing of a pocket watch, and I don't think Spurgeon, Wesley, or Finney did either.

The airbrushing referred by Observer I believe does not have to do with Ellen White.

What Jesus testified in the 19th century is not based on sand anymore than what He testified back when he was here on earth, or by His Spirit through Paul or Peter or any of the other Bible writers.

We must be careful that we do not make of none effect what He has said. We don't want to make of none effect the commandments of God through our tradition or through any other means, regardless of the topic, whether it be adornment, lying, adultery, or stealing.

And at the same time we'd better be careful that we don't offend the little ones.

[erik]

The big deal is when critics dishonestly hide the fact that she was wearing a pocket watch. She never condemned the wearing of a pocket watch, and I don't think Spurgeon, Wesley, or Finney did either.

The airbrushing referred by Observer I believe does not have to do with Ellen White.

What Jesus testified in the 19th century is not based on sand anymore than what He testified back when he was here on earth, or by His Spirit through Paul or Peter or any of the other Bible writers.

We must be careful that we do not make of none effect what He has said. We don't want to make of none effect the commandments of God through our tradition or through any other means, regardless of the topic, whether it be adornment, lying, adultery, or stealing.

And at the same time we'd better be careful that we don't offend the little ones.

Bob,

Please understand is all that i meant was that if bible teaches that we should be modest in attire, and i firmly belief that it does. then when you look at her pictures and compare them to the pictures of other women of her day then you would know that the a single gold chain was not what she was speaking about, she lived what she taught. I fully realize that critics of her are very quick to jump on her about everything. but just because they are so foolish does mean that i have get stirred up about .


On the whole jewelery thing, if it is a sin to wear expensive jewelery, then why would it be a sin, well because it draws the focus of people looking at me to me and not on to the "Light of the World" that should be shining out of me. I have seem women and men of other Churches that jewelery on that cover up any light of god from shining out of them, but then i have seen very properly dress SDA that a such a frown on their whole face that the light of the world did not shine out of them either.

I also think that the jewelery issue does carry over to cars, homes, planes, clothes, i guess the necktie thing i do not get because women wear scarfs around their necks, and that seems to me to be closer to a necktie then a gold chain around their neck.

ERik

[Pickle]

Erik,

I combined comments about several posts all together, and thus it might have seemed like all my comments were directed to you, when they weren't. The only one directed to you was the first paragraph.

Possibly to get us back to the topic, I want to say that the whole 3ABN thing has gotten me to do a good bit of soul searching. I see it as a call for all of us, especially me, to get our house in order.

We all tend to rationalize away this or that, or to procrastinate about taking care of this or that. Yet in the horrendous situation at 3ABN we can see where all of that can take us. Certainly Tommy and Danny didn't get to the point where they allegedly did this or that overnight. It must have been one departure after another, one neglected duty here and another there.

It was only a piece of fruit, just a piece of fruit, that Adam and Eve ate. Such a little thing. What little things has the Holy Spirit spoken to me about that I've told Him, Not yet, or, That's not important, or, Maybe some day, or, Everyone else is doing it, or, I've already tried, etc., etc.

Yes, I've been doing some soul searching, and I think that is a good thing in these last days.

[PeacefulBe]

I don't really want to jump into this one because I think it reinforces the old "majoring in minors" problems we've had. I would however suggest that before you take to strong a stand on the "airbrushing" references, that you go to the GC vault to view the original pictures.



Just a suggestion...



-Yogi

YB, where is the GC vault located?

PB

[erik]

Erik,

I combined comments about several posts all together, and thus it might have seemed like all my comments were directed to you, when they weren't. The only one directed to you was the first paragraph.

Possibly to get us back to the topic, I want to say that the whole 3ABN thing has gotten me to do a good bit of soul searching. I see it as a call for all of us, especially me, to get our house in order.

We all tend to rationalize away this or that, or to procrastinate about taking care of this or that. Yet in the horrendous situation at 3ABN we can see where all of that can take us. Certainly Tommy and Danny didn't get to the point where they allegedly did this or that overnight. It must have been one departure after another, one neglected duty here and another there.

It was only a piece of fruit, just a piece of fruit, that Adam and Eve ate. Such a little thing. What little things has the Holy Spirit spoken to me about that I've told Him, Not yet, or, That's not important, or, Maybe some day, or, Everyone else is doing it, or, I've already tried, etc., etc.

Yes, I've been doing some soul searching, and I think that is a good thing in these last days.

Amen

[PeacefulBe]

Erik,

I combined comments about several posts all together, and thus it might have seemed like all my comments were directed to you, when they weren't. The only one directed to you was the first paragraph.

Possibly to get us back to the topic, I want to say that the whole 3ABN thing has gotten me to do a good bit of soul searching. I see it as a call for all of us, especially me, to get our house in order.

We all tend to rationalize away this or that, or to procrastinate about taking care of this or that. Yet in the horrendous situation at 3ABN we can see where all of that can take us. Certainly Tommy and Danny didn't get to the point where they allegedly did this or that overnight. It must have been one departure after another, one neglected duty here and another there.

It was only a piece of fruit, just a piece of fruit, that Adam and Eve ate. Such a little thing. What little things has the Holy Spirit spoken to me about that I've told Him, Not yet, or, That's not important, or, Maybe some day, or, Everyone else is doing it, or, I've already tried, etc., etc.
Yes, I've been doing some soul searching, and I think that is a good thing in these last days.

Bob,
You pegged it! The bottom line is, are we steadily laying a strong, spiritual foundation as we walk with our Lord or are we throwing up procrastination's house of cards on the sandy by default.

I'm sure each one of us can see instances in our lives where rationalizations brought us to places away from our Savior. A dangerous practice, indeed.

PB

[Carmel]

It was only a piece of fruit, just a piece of fruit, that Adam and Eve ate. Such a little thing.

I think this is one of the most important principles. Just think about it... people today say so often: "It is such a small thing... Is God so small to hold me responsible for something like that?"

The other famous complaint is: "That is not important for salvation!"

I believe there is no small or unimportant thing in God's eyes. Everything we do is important and related to "salvation" (I actually don't like that term "salvation". It has more negative connotation for me, but that's another subject.)

Having said that, I want to emphasize that the most important thing is "the principle behind it." What is the principle behind, for examle not wearing jewelry, or doing or not doing something. Plus, to recognize the symptoms of the problem versus the real problem. What you see outside is only small portion of what is inside. But to fix the outside, you have to work on the inside. Outside always follows the inside. I would never work on the outside as a principle, until person has established a real trust in God and (I don't know better word for it, but I dislike the word "relationship" as I think it is overused and lost its meaning lately) has become a friend with the Savior. And by that time, there is no need to talk about those things, Holy Spirit is the one who works out the symptoms in his perfect time.


Carmel

This post has been edited by Carmel: Mar 21 2007, 03:28 PM