Change In 3-abn Leadership Options

[PeacefulBe]

The only thing to remember is that there ARE differences in the worship experiences and expression....some of you may be turned off by how I worship and I tell you with all due respect, I was not interested in most of the Adventist programming on either Hope or 3ABN....Having a separate channel does not make them racist; if no one else can be a part of it, then that would.

In my own church example, we had one Sabbath praise music session that included drums along with the guitars and piano. It was so loudly done that it was hard to hear the words above the music. A number of older members got up and left in protest. I could understand that, especially if they wore hearing aids, as the decibles of that particular group were making my ears hurt as well. I was tempted to leave for that reason alone. However, as the pastor brought the sermon I marveled at the spiritual blessing I would have missed if I had left.

Isn't this what we should be looking for no matter who is standing behind the pulpit or even their style of preaching? Are the words of the Holy Spirit to be ignored if the one speaking uses a different style? Would it harm us to open our ears to seek God's message no matter the color of the face it comes through?

Just wondering...

[erik]

Danny said last night that this would be "national news."

Our local media hasn't even picked it up yet. I'm sure the hole-in-the-wall West Frankfort paper will (they always try to pacify Danny for some reason), but I really don't expect to hear it anywhere else.

Daune,

When i heard that last night it sound like danny was just trying to sound important, in fact i got that idea from most of the 3abn staff, moses being the main one that sound sincere, Doug seem very caged or reserved at least to me.

I am sure that danny is hurting for funds, i heard that 3 abn was running serious shortfall of cash, like in the seven figures.

Anyways keep the faith, and remember so many of us are proud of you for standing tall.

erik

[princessdi]

ALL, let me repeat ALL music needs to be done well by those skilled in it either by education or natural talent. Loud definitely does not equal good. That being said, it probably was louder than your congregagation is used to, and that would also present a problem. I find that the complaints aobut loudness mostly accompanies the addition of "live" drums. There is usually no complaint abou those on a sound track. Service should minister to ALL so a balance is key.

In my own church example, we had one Sabbath praise music session that included drums along with the guitars and piano. It was so loudly done that it was hard to hear the words above the music. A number of older members got up and left in protest. I could understand that, especially if they wore hearing aids, as the decibles of that particular group were making my ears hurt as well. I was tempted to leave for that reason alone. However, as the pastor brought the sermon I marveled at the spiritual blessing I would have missed if I had left.

Isn't this what we should be looking for no matter who is standing behind the pulpit or even their style of preaching? Are the words of the Holy Spirit to be ignored if the one speaking uses a different style? Would it harm us to open our ears to seek God's message no matter the color of the face it comes through?

Just wondering...

[Rosyroi]

Someone somewhere on one of these threads made a remark about Danny having little guy syndrome. I had no idea he was short. I knew Linda was very tall.. taller than Barbara and I stood by her when she was in the area to see how tall Linda would be and I would guess that Barbara was at least 5' 5-8" tall. Hmmmm

I suppose so... guess I always considered the "little man syndrome" man to be about 5" 4" tall or shorter.

Gotta rethink this

Yep Danny was really in his prime last night. A brand new (seldom used? different style anyway) cowboy suit, not the usual matching jacket and turtle neck sweater. He took up almost 20 minutes telling his story before letting anyone else give their story.

I don't really like the idea of some of the folk sitting and others standing on the show last night and other Tuesday night live programs. Just doesn't set well with me. Walt leaning down over Danny's shoulder, etc. Just my opinion I like it that they are all sitting around in semi circle. It could be that it can't happen so the camera can pan Danny as much as possible and not look like it is focusing Danny that much.

Wonder how much bonus the camera man/woman gets for panning Danny certain number of times a program... sorry folk... guess I sound kinda not nice.

Have a happy Sabbath
Rosyroi

[hollybygolly]

I was really initially disappointed in the program but when I got to thinking about it, I realize that Doug Batchelor can't just romp into the 3ABN offices and throw out people left and right just because I think that is what should be done. And I do!

He is going to need some time and some slack from us to make the changes that we would like to see. What we need to do, I think, is keep messaging him to let him know where we stand on the issues. He will automatically take up the financial issues as they arise and that in itself should get rid of Danny sooner than he even understands. In any case, Doug cannot do anything about the issues of pedophilia and sexual misconduct. Those issues are separate from the running of 3ABN except for the immediate need to clearing out of anyone who is risking children and anyone else with that kind of behavior.

As to the others, Doug will need to be very circumspect in his dealings with them. I suspect that in the long run, he has kept much of his private thoughts to himself and will let them out only as he sees fit within the boundaries that need to be set up. I say that because of his refusal to accept the position that Danny 'offered' him last night. He has a plan that he and God are working on, is what I see.

We have hashed and rehashed this situation so much that we think we have all of the answers and want to see them acted upon post haste , but I still see that God is in control and will wait to pass judgement on Doug Batchelor. How many will join me in this?

Many prayers are needed!

GrammieTana

*grabs grammie's hand* I am with ya!!! Our two hearts beat as one in this subject. Doug's attitude and demeanor were admirably cautious on 3ABN. I really like how he let people say what they wanted to say, and didn't seem in take-charge mode.

Very well said, Grammie.

[YogusBearus]

He will have to answer to God, eventually. Isnt that the most imporant thing?
Even if he appeard on 3ABN and confessed everything he did wrong, got on his knees and begged for forgiveness (which, hopefully we would forgive), how many of us would trust him like we used to? *does not raise hand*
It would be wonderful if DS saw the error of his ways, but I honestly dont think that will happen, at least not admitted publicly. Even if it did happen, I would still wonder about the sincerity.
Maybe this is a great wakeup call, that no matter what, man is flawed, and the only one we can trust completely is God. We can't base our faith on an organization. We must base our faith on the God and His word to us.

Agreed Holly and I might add that I think Danny is already answering for his actions. It doesn't take to long listening to the apologists to realize how panicked DS and crew are. I also believe that Danny will be answering in a huge way not to far down the road. I'm convinced it is going to involve abuse of funds and that will put DS out of business once and for all.

In the meantime we need to avoid giving more attention to DS than is deserved. The success of 3abn or AF can't compare to what we as individuals can do in reaching others. I think we forget that at times and place to much credit in new technology evangelism.

-Bear

[hollybygolly]

Agreed Holly and I might add that I think Danny is already answering for his actions. It doesn't take to long listening to the apologists to realize how panicked DS and crew are. I also believe that Danny will be answering in a huge way not to far down the road. I'm convinced it is going to involve abuse of funds and that will put DS out of business once and for all.

In the meantime we need to avoid giving more attention to DS than is deserved. The success of 3abn or AF can't compare to what we as individuals can do in reaching others. I think we forget that at times and place to much credit in new technology evangelism.

-Bear

Right. Attention back to reaching others is what is needed.

[inga]

Well, PB, you've expressed my concerns/feelings rather well.

When I wrote to Doug Batchelor last year, I got a note back from his secretary worded as though Danny himself had written it, complete with twisting of my words to suit his purposes. Probably Doug didn't even see that note.

How much does Doug really know, I wonder?

He should know enough not to have pulled a foolish stunt such as a "merger" that leaves Danny and Molly in control.

I have faith only in God, none in "princes," such as Danny Shelton and Doug Batchelor.

H'mm ... putting them together like that does nothing for Danny and takes a lot from Doug, who used to have a pretty "clean" reputation, at least. Now some will wonder what he's got to hide.

Something just doesn't ring true.

My 81-year-old mother was so upset that she called me, upset nearly to tears, before the first hour was over. She feels like two ministries are now in danger of being destroyed instead of just one.

Where miracle stories, dreams and amazing coincidences would have, before now, given us both goose bumps and hearts filled with joy, in the face of the obvious denial rampant in that room tonight it brought nothing but disappointment.

Near the end of the program, Doug Batchelor said that "they'll know us by our love for each other". Look out of the 3abn doors, Brother Doug, at the people of Thompsonville. Go and ask Duane and Roger Clem and the other alleged victims of pastoral abuse who have experienced the feelings flowing from the co- founder of 3abn towards them. Ask them about the love they see flowing from the leadership of 3abn. Is Christ being lifted up to those alleged victims and their loved ones? Or, has it made better business sense to allow those alleged victims to remain as necessary sacrifices to protect the image of the President and his family? If this is the case, there is a real danger of one day hearing those devastating words from the lips of our Redeemer found in Matthew 7:22-23:

22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

[inga]

What we need to do, I think, is keep messaging him to let him know where we stand on the issues. He will automatically take up the financial issues as they arise and that in itself should get rid of Danny sooner than he even understands. In any case, Doug cannot do anything about the issues of pedophilia and sexual misconduct. Those issues are separate from the running of 3ABN except for the immediate need to clearing out of anyone who is risking children and anyone else with that kind of behavior. [snip]
...

Many prayers are needed!

GrammieTana

Yes, Grammie, many prayers are needed!!

And I think it's very important that those who have a way of cluing Doug Batchelor in on what's been going on at 3ABN behind the scenes should inform him as clearly as they can. It is quite possible that he's been blind, perhaps willingly so. But he can't afford to be blind any longer ...

[steffan]

Agreed Holly and I might add that I think Danny is already answering for his actions. It doesn't take to long listening to the apologists to realize how panicked DS and crew are. I also believe that Danny will be answering in a huge way not to far down the road. I'm convinced it is going to involve abuse of funds and that will put DS out of business once and for all.

In the meantime we need to avoid giving more attention to DS than is deserved. The success of 3abn or AF can't compare to what we as individuals can do in reaching others. I think we forget that at times and place to much credit in new technology evangelism.

-Bear

I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.

This post has been edited by steffan: Apr 20 2007, 06:08 PM

[YogusBearus]

I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.

Thank you Steffan for clearing everything up for us so succinctly.

-Bear

[GrammieTana]

The following was posted by Rosie55 on Christian Forums:

(All bolding and color added by me)

This informative post by CF's Rosie55 is noteworthy.

What is of particular concern, in my opinion, is the statement that I have highlighted in red. If this is truly the message, that Danny has the widespread support by the organized church and ASI, I have to wonder if this is a positive step for Amazing Facts and the church. What will happen to the reputation of the SDA denomination if it is proven that Danny, some of his family members and possibly some on his board of directors knew that TS had abused his pastoral power and, instead of reaching out to help the victims heal he/they instead attempted to intimidate victims and cover up the abuse?

Again, this and other posts seem to forget that Alyssa, Linda's daughter was accosted by Danny more than once! We must also pray that this egregious behavior be recognized and punished to the fullest extent of the law! Forgiveness is not the issue, for either DS or TS. It is also a separate issue from the 'change' in leadership of 3ABN. I certainly hope that Linda's new lawyer will make sure that this is not swept under the rug!!

GT

[PeacefulBe]

ALL, let me repeat ALL music needs to be done well by those skilled in it either by education or natural talent. Loud definitely does not equal good. That being said, it probably was louder than your congregagation is used to, and that would also present a problem. I find that the complaints aobut loudness mostly accompanies the addition of "live" drums. There is usually no complaint abou those on a sound track. Service should minister to ALL so a balance is key.

Di,
It was a youthful group that appeared to think, out of their sincere immaturity, that louder was better. It was their one and only appearance on our stage.

[PeacefulBe]

Steffan,
I thought you lived in New York. Have you moved to the Thompsonville area so that you have first-hand knowledge of all that you have said below?

I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.

We were aware of the meeting. One of our fellow BSDA members, freckleface reported to us the following yesterday:

As we speak a meeting is being held at 3ABN with all employees. Doug and Danny are speaking to them on the future of 3ABN.

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192048

So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.

Your statement that I have bolded above causes me some concerns. Do you have first hand knowledge from Doug Batchelor and his AF team that they are not worried about allegations and that they know they are false and shrug off the people behind it? Are these statements you have heard for yourself?

PB

[steffan]

Daune,

When i heard that last night it sound like danny was just trying to sound important, in fact i got that idea from most of the 3abn staff, moses being the main one that sound sincere, Doug seem very caged or reserved at least to me.

I am sure that danny is hurting for funds, i heard that 3 abn was running serious shortfall of cash, like in the seven figures.

Anyways keep the faith, and remember so many of us are proud of you for standing tall.

erik

Well you heard wrong again. 3abn has always functioned on a break even basis, they aren't in debt but don't have anything saved either. That is cash we are talking about. At anytime of the ministry was desperate for funds they have millions of dollars of assets and some of those assets could be sold off if need be. Thankfully they have not had to do that.

Doug seemed caged and reserved? Why? It was his choice to do this merge now. It had been discussed at other times but he didn't feel the time was right until now. Those of you that keep insinuating that Doug was forced into this by someone, somehow in some way try to use your thinking caps to extract some common sense. AF is respected and so is Doug. It is a successful ministry and has been for a very long time. Now why would anyone and who would that be that would "force" Doug to merge with 3abn? People all your speculation is making no sense. How could it be any more simple that 2 great ministries joining together to increase their evangelizing power? You all need to get over your own misguided beliefs and agenda's and start praising God.


And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.