Change In 3-abn Leadership Options

[Rosyroi]

hoping this discussion stays calm quiet and dignified during the Sabbath hours.
Wouldnt want to have it closed down again.

Happy Sabbath
Rosyroi

[mozart]

thanks WB. that is the best and most balance and Christian answer I have heard on this subject.

........ Excuse me... a white channel proposing to develop a black channel..... what am I missing? How is this anything but just an updated version of segregated churches, segregated conferences, and a segregated heaven

Shouldn't our aim be for all channels to be fully integrated? And if channels have specialties in programming, let that be along other lines than those which already divide us.... racial, doctrinal, an music styles. One can see the appropriateness of LLBN, for example, being weighted towards health issues. One could see a worship/inspiration channel staying away from doctrinal and health programing. One could see a music channel carrying only music... either video or live performances. But IMO all channels should organize their programming so that no race or other group within the Adventist church feels left out of, or slighted by, the programming content or appearance. Not all programs need to appeal to all tastes, cultures, doctrinal biases, or races... but certainly the channel as a whole should offer a balanced fare with something for each individual.

....................................

I thought "urban" meant diversified; of all races.

It is definitely code for black" Den, you might add hispanic in there also, but when they refer to music or anything being urban, it generally mean "black".

just a thought; but maybe wintley phipps channel will not just be adventists either. has anybody heard it will be strictly adventist? maybe that should be another thread.

WB,
You certainly called that one correctly! Separate channels could be nothing more than a slick technological way to separate the denomination by color. I wonder if 3abn and Wently Phipps have pondered on that one? Is Wently developing the channel or is Danny?

A fully integrated channel? Of course that should be the goal! Will Hope be our best bet? We will see. On the other hand, wouldn't all of the various channels being in the same little box, available to all viewers be rather like an integreted network? I'm sure someone will set me straight if I've stuck my foot in my mouth again. Of course, I have no idea exactly what Wently Phipp's channel will be like so perhaps I should just zip it and watch for awhile.

God bless you hbg, i love what you've said here.

He will have to answer to God, eventually. Isnt that the most imporant thing?
Even if he appeard on 3ABN and confessed everything he did wrong, got on his knees and begged for forgiveness (which, hopefully we would forgive), how many of us would trust him like we used to? *does not raise hand*
It would be wonderful if DS saw the error of his ways, but I honestly dont think that will happen, at least not admitted publicly. Even if it did happen, I would still wonder about the sincerity.
Maybe this is a great wakeup call, that no matter what, man is flawed, and the only one we can trust completely is God. We can't base our faith on an organization. We must base our faith on the God and His word to us.
God gave certain people certain talents and resources, and it is their choice to use them right. Obviously someone has misused these things and is paying for his choices now. Its now someone else's turn to use talents and resources, we will see what happens.
God will bless you for what you use to glorify Him. I am so glad that He will never let us down, and that we can rely on Him to turn something good out of this, as long as we focus on what is most important - spreading God's word.
He is coming so soon. Lets remember that. Soon all the heartache will be gone. How awesome to think that we won't have to be limited on time ever again - we will have eternity to get to know each other!!! Thats the one unfortunate thing about church, you just dont have time to talk with everyone that you want to.

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 20 2007, 11:22 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Now why would anyone and who would that be that would "force" Doug to merge with 3abn?

Steffan, who said anything about Doug being forced to merge with 3abn?

And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

So Doug told you personally that he could care less about the allegations and that he knows they are false and that he shrugs off the people behind the allegations? Doug Batchelor actually told you these things?

[PeacefulBe]

Again, this and other posts seem to forget that Alyssa, Linda's daughter was accosted by Danny more than once! We must also pray that this egregious behavior be recognized and punished to the fullest extent of the law! Forgiveness is not the issue, for either DS or TS. It is also a separate issue from the 'change' in leadership of 3ABN. I certainly hope that Linda's new lawyer will make sure that this is not swept under the rug!!

GT

GT,
In your post #132, you quote my post regarding a statement by Rosie55 from Christian Forums:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192244

Unfortunately, when you quoted my post, Rosie55's actual statement did not show up so the quote looks like she is responsible for my own opinion and comments.

To set the record straight, I am providing the link to my original post so anyone who wishes to may go and check out what Rosie55 actually posted:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192033

[mozart]

Steffan, who said anything about Doug being forced to merge with 3abn?
So Doug told you personally that he could care less about the allegations and that he knows they are false and that he shrugs off the people behind the allegations? Doug Batchelor actually told you these things?

steffan is an antagonist PB. i wouldn't give his post any creedence if i were you. his posts on CF were of such a hostile & credulous nature i suggested ppl just ignore him completely and the mods there removed my post saying it was flaming. go figure

[Rosyroi]

Yes, posters who come in here to distract and confuse are really to be ignored. I had thought forums were for posting what one is thnking through their fingers. Most posters respectfully disagree with each other and no one is kicked out of the forum.

When I read other posts I might agree or disagree with what is being posted but that doesn't give me the right to be rude to the other poster. I believe everyone has a right to their own opinions. Making statements in the forums to type out our opinions doesn't necessarily mean that what we post is meant as a truth to be written down in stone.

If ALL of us agree to use the ignore botton on the rude posters they won't have anyone to argue with and leave us alone. I am trying to do that myself.

If anyone disagrees with me please do so kindly. Love to all.

Thank Calvin for allowing us to post on the Sabbath day.

Rosyroi
@}---;---;-----

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Apr 21 2007, 08:28 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Friday evening over on Christian Forum's, tomatoe replied to a post by truthmagnet about Danny Shelton's travel plans.
Tomatoe's post #164:

On Business TM. Try not to get too excited about it. Also it was hong kong and Taiwan. He has to go to many different countries to see about the possibilities of contracts, negotiations, etc etc for getting 3abn there.
All this bologne about running from a lawsuit because Linda got a new lawyer is again, ridiculous. So what? 3abn has had a team of lawyers for months now. Putting all of these posts together from here and bsda here is what you guys have come up with.
ASI, AF, THE general Conference and the boards of both ministries have gotten together in less than a week to come up with a plan to 1. Make DS step down, 2. Take over 3abn, 3. Cover up allegations against 3abn, or 4. The other groups named "forced" Doug to merge with 3abn for well we don't know why......continued

All of the above happened almost overnight and the decisions will affect the entire Seventh Day Adventist denomination around the world, but, it was all done as a secret conspiracy and all the above named people and organizations were a party to it, because.....Linda got a new lawyer.

Man...you guys are like Sherlock Holmes.
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.ph...p;postcount=164

After reading this exchange, I, PeacefulSDA, gathered information from Observer/Greg Matthew's early posts from Thursday morning in the Change In 3-abn Leadership thread.
PeacefulSDA's reply in post #165:

tomatoe,
1. Mollie S. told Gregory Matthews that Danny told the 3abn board that he wants to step down.
2. Gregory Matthews said both ministries would continue but under the unified leadership of Doug Batchelor.
3. Steffan says he was told Doug does not believe the allegations and shrugs off the ones behind the allegations.
4. Who is saying the other groups have "forced" Doug to merge with 3abn? That is news to me. The only ones I have seen saying that are you and Steffan.

Click here to read what was actually said on BSDA

Someone did speculate this was as a result of Linda's new lawyer. That someone was mistaken in his speculation, obviously.
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.ph...p;postcount=165

Early this morning, tomatoe replied to PeacefulSDA's post with some interesting and, perhaps, revealing information.

Tomatoe's post #166:

GREG M made those statements before the live. Mollie mispoke or Greg took her words wrong. Regardless it was straightened out before the live where you saw plainly that DS is going nowhere. Doug and Danny both, might eventually give their general managers a little more administrative power to free them up to evangelize in their own ways. Danny has had less and less time for programming the last few years which is why you see other hosts a lot of time on the live. He hopes to get back to hosting more often and interviewing guests. Even though he already travels a lot, that will probably increase also if he can get out from under the mountains of paperwork. Doug also hopes to do more programming and I am sure more of his revivals will be in the works. Doug will stay in sacramento and keep his church there. DS and 3abn will stay in southern IL. The plan at this point is for 3abn to become 3abn amazing facts but in probability will eventually just go back to 3abn period since that name is more known world wide.

As far as the "forced" thing with Doug. I said that because I have read several comments of people saying "Doug looked caged" and Doug looked uncomfortable. What is the insinuation there? Obviously that he didn't want to do this. My point was how could that be? This was his choice. Nobody could make him do it or would even try to make him so why the ridiculous comments about him looking uncomfortable. They are both very happy to fullfill what they have been talking about doing for quite some time. Lots of details have been worked out and there are many more to go. Even their titles are not in stone yet. All they want people to understand, at this point, is that both ministries will function the same in day to day operations. Each leader at his own ministry. Doug will not be making rules for 3abn and Danny will not be for AF. Both are trying to free themselves up from some of the administrative duties, not add to them.

And, it is true that Doug , amazing facts or his board are not concerned with internet allegations. Doug has worked closely enough with 3abn and DS through the years to know that these are rumors and speculation and sometimes out and out lies. He has spent weeks at a time at the facility and his conclusions speak for themselves. His board also, voted unanimously to merge with 3abn. They obviously didn't have reservations either. MMM I do believe that they know a lot more of the true facts than the everday posters here, who swear that 3abn is corrupt. That always amazes me when most have had no experience with 3abn or the people involved at all.

Folks, save your time and energy by taking this merger as a wonderful world wide soul winning tool for the Adventist Denomination. You can accuse, twist, spin and throw around speculations all you want but it doesn't change the simple truth that it is, what it is, take it at face value...something wondeful.
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.ph...p;postcount=166

What I have not personally been able to conclude from this post by tomatoe is how the merger is going to make things any different than they are at the present time. Here is a recap from tomatoe's post:

Both Doug and Danny "might eventually" give their GM's "a little more administrative power" so they can evangelize in their own ways.
Both ministries will remain in their home locations.
Titles for Doug and Danny are not yet set in stone.
Both ministries will function the same in day to day operations.
Both will remain the leaders of their own ministries.
Doug will not be making rules for 3abn and Danny will not be for AF.
Both are trying to free themselves up from some of the administrative duties, not add to them.

So, what has this merger actually accomplished besides the possible temporary name change to 3abn Amazing Facts? We know from the Live program that the two boards may have some member changes as they merge together. But, after reading the key points of tomatoe's post, what else is really changing? Even the stated goal on the Live program of combining forces for evangelism seems unlikely since tomatoe they will continue to "evangelize in their own ways".

It appears that Doug Batchelor's schedule is the biggest change in this merger because he will be spending a lot of time traveling back and forth from California to Illinois. Or will he even be doing that?

At this point, from what tomatoe has shared in his post, this merger between 3abn and Amazing Facts appears to be a change in name only. What do they hope to accomplish by this admittedly temporary name change? Will it add dollars to either coffer? Will it give either ministry more credibility. After carefully watching the Thursday evening Live program and now reading tomatoe's post, the whole point of the merger seems rather unclear.

[GrammieTana]

GT,
In your post #132, you quote my post regarding a statement by Rosie55 from Christian Forums:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192244

Unfortunately, when you quoted my post, Rosie55's actual statement did not show up so the quote looks like she is responsible for my own opinion and comments.

To set the record straight, I am providing the link to my original post so anyone who wishes to may go and check out what Rosie55 actually posted:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192033

Dear PB,

I am sorry if there was any confusion or offense taken by either you or Rosie55. I was simply responding to your comment and should have erased what was before it.

Again, Sorry. Still friends?

GT

[PeacefulBe]

Dear PB,

I am sorry if there was any confusion or offense taken by either you or Rosie55. I was simply responding to your comment and should have erased what was before it.

Again, Sorry. Still friends?

GT

GT,
I certainly wasn't being critical of you, just fixing a misperception that Rosie brought to my attention. Of course we're still friends!

PB

[GrammieTana]

*grabs grammie's hand* I am with ya!!! Our two hearts beat as one in this subject. Doug's attitude and demeanor were admirably cautious on 3ABN. I really like how he let people say what they wanted to say, and didn't seem in take-charge mode.

Very well said, Grammie.

Thanks for the hand, hbg,

I really do think that standing back and waiting patiently will give us all a much needed break from trying to think for God. will win in the end.

GT

GT,
I certainly wasn't being critical of you, just fixing a misperception that Rosie brought to my attention. Of course we're still friends!

PB

Oh, PB, Ah's so glad.

GT

[larryr]

This is only speculation but I suspect this will lead to an overhaul in the leadership and management of 3ABN…..and not just Doug as the front person with Danny pulling the strings in the background. 3ABN is a ministry but it is also a business. When a business has this many problems, typically a top leadership and management change is necessary in order for the new leader to be effective. These changes won’t take place overnight but you can expect new management as the old are eased out the door.

I'm thinking like you, Calvin: I saw what happened when I worked at HP during the merger with Compaq. Carly took charge as CEO and out went Compaq's president... I'm sincerely hoping that the same thing happens here (positively!) and that Doug takes over with Danny OUT!!! And, as Carly did at HP, Board members were replaced; so I hope this works the same way. I see this as the ONLY WAY to prevent Danny (and cronies) from creating further scandal.

[awesumtenor]

I'm thinking like you, Calvin: I saw what happened when I worked at HP during the merger with Compaq. Carly took charge as CEO and out went Compaq's president... I'm sincerely hoping that the same thing happens here (positively!) and that Doug takes over with Danny OUT!!! And, as Carly did at HP, Board members were replaced; so I hope this works the same way. I see this as the ONLY WAY to prevent Danny (and cronies) from creating further scandal.

Only problem with that analogy is that enough of the old HP board members... particularly the Hewlett and Packard family members insisted that Carly do things "the HP way" and her recalcitrance to do that ultimately got her sacked... will enough of the existing 3ABN way persist to such a degree that Doug Batchelor's efforts bear no fruit? Time will tell.

In His service,
Mr. J

Well you heard wrong again. 3abn has always functioned on a break even basis, they aren't in debt but don't have anything saved either. That is cash we are talking about. At anytime of the ministry was desperate for funds they have millions of dollars of assets and some of those assets could be sold off if need be. Thankfully they have not had to do that.

Doug seemed caged and reserved? Why? It was his choice to do this merge now. It had been discussed at other times but he didn't feel the time was right until now. Those of you that keep insinuating that Doug was forced into this by someone, somehow in some way try to use your thinking caps to extract some common sense. AF is respected and so is Doug. It is a successful ministry and has been for a very long time. Now why would anyone and who would that be that would "force" Doug to merge with 3abn? People all your speculation is making no sense. How could it be any more simple that 2 great ministries joining together to increase their evangelizing power? You all need to get over your own misguided beliefs and agenda's and start praising God.
And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

So much for your leaving BSDA and never coming back again, Steffan... but we already knew you couldn't stay away, in spite of your posturing...

In His service,
Mr. J

[Clay]

If memory serves, seems like steffan referred to BSDA as a swamp.... and I do remember being told by steffan to slither back to "the swamp." Well.... glad to see you Steffan.... either you no longer view BSDA as a swamp, or you don't mind playing in the swamp.... either way, good to see you...

[PeacefulBe]

If memory serves, seems like steffan referred to BSDA as a swamp.... and I do remember being told by steffan to slither back to "the swamp." Well.... glad to see you Steffan.... either you no longer view BSDA as a swamp, or you don't mind playing in the swamp.... either way, good to see you...

Clay,
In steffan's defense he did stay away from September until now. That took some pretty strong resolve, IMO! But if he came back just to play, he best remember to play carefully and mind the occasional hungry gators swimming by.

[Grith]

I watched the program Thursday evening (thanks to seeing the announcement at BSDA). I've been reading the responses here, but I heard something that no one has commented on thus far. Danny stated that there had been a secret meeting in Denver with himself, DB, and Garwin McNeilus. That brought a few questions to mind:

1. Why did they have to meet with McNeilus? I know that he is very wealthy and apparently that gives him a lot of clout?
2. Why was it immportant to meet with McNeilus? Why was his input/counsel/approval needed?
3. Why was the meeting secret. From what I remember DS said that even Molly didn't know.
4. Why would it be so important to get one layman's OK but not all those other who are or have supported AF/3ABN?

Does anyone have any ideas?