Change In 3-abn Leadership Options

[watchbird]

I certainly share your concern. But I was clearly told by certain leaders at 3ABN that one reason they could not support Linda was her music style. It was too. . . whatever, for the ultra conservative idea of true religion. You may have noticed that the black singers and musicians who have been performing on 3ABN have not performed quite the way you are used to in your churches - at least that is my honest impression. Perhaps with the exception of the Walther Pearson programs, but was there ever any singing there?

It seems to me that HOPE is much more open and they use various styles of music and singing. So next time I suggest you try HOPE. In my opinion we need a greater contribution of the excellent black music to inspire us in the right direction for the Lord.

Let's be clear about something else regarding 3abn and music..... it is not only black singers and musicians who look and sound different from what they do in other venues. White singers also sound and look different... to say nothing of the fact that there are many other sounds and styles of music that are NEVER seen or heard on 3abn.... and it has been this way from the very beginning. When I complained in the early days when they took LLU church and Sabbath School off the air one of the two reasons I was given was that their music did not fit 3abn "criteria". And I would not dignify their "criteria" by calling it "the ultra-conservative view of religion".... Not very many true conservatives even tolerate the kind of music that Danny sends out over the airwaves.

Sure... no one has ever seen "black gospel" or "black contemporary" or "black choirs". But it is equally true that no one has ever seen genuine "gospel", "southern gospel", contemporary, traditional or classical choirs, orchestras, bands (whether worship, marching, or concert), orchestras, chamber music... or anything else other than the insipid, watered down, tightly controled versions of Dannystyle music. Even the singers who have a wide repetoire of music are not allowed freedom of choice and selection... or of movement. One singer who "auditioned" for them told of chalk marks on the floor within which he had to keep his feet at all times.


I'm not at all denying that Blacks have a legitimate "beef" with how they are [not] represented on 3abn. Just know that it's not "all about color".... it's about narrow criteria that excludes everything that doesn't match Danny's particular mediocre tastes in music.

[Denny]

So what will we do in Heaven? There will be a lot of suprised people when we all learn to worship God with perfection.

Don't you know the white Adventists will come over the side where the black Adventists live when they want to listen to our music - yes racist garbage words has been spilled from the mouths of Adventists.....

[simplysaved]

You have well spoken, here.

Now is when the reality comes out: are the problems many have actually with the current leadership of 3abn, or with 3abn itself.

If the church at large (since it sounds like the GC Pres, NAD Pres, etc have given their approval) has decided to rescue 3abn, is the new management required to make apologies? Or can't they say: a new day has dawned, we're replacing so-and-so, and so-and-so, etc. (over time, of course. It is not usually wise to replace too many employees at once).

From my position, where I hold the current leadership responsible for their behavior (that being DS, certain management, and certain board members), the apologies need to come from those individuals whether or not they still are employed by 3abn.

While the new management can make a few statements of apology and moves of reconciliation where needed, if they get too involved in what the past management did, it could conceivably have bad repercussions for the new management.

From a Public Relations perspective (my background), any statements made by the new administration need to be very, very careful. They will want to start with a clean slate, not jump into a ugly mess.

[Daryl Fawcett]

I took notes on what happened on the live program pertaining to the merger, and here they are in numbered format:

3ABN Live Notes – April 19, 2007

1. Danny Shelton said he had offered Pastor Doug Batchelor a position with 3ABN and he turned it down.

2. Then Danny Shelton offered Pastor Doug Batchelor the position as president and he again turned it down.

3. Then they got the idea of merging the ministries, 3ABN and Amazing Facts.

4. Garwin McNeilius thought this would be a great merger.

5. Shelley Quinn said to Danny Shelton, “When you offered him (referring to Pastor Doug Batchelor) the presidency.....”

6. Monday, April 16th, the 3ABN Board voted for merging with Amazing Facts.

7. Wednesday, April 18th, the Amazing Facts Board voted for merging with 3ABN.

8. New Board.

9. T9, page 221 quote re moving the world.

10. R&H 1890 quote re pressing together.

11. Join these ministries…..

12. 3ABN sees itself as a Supporting Ministry of the SDA Church, not as an Independent Ministry.

13. Danny Shelton alluded to Pastor Doug Batchelor as becoming President of 3ABN from this merger.

14. 3ABN and Amazing Facts will retain their individual identities.

15. Mollie will continue to take care of the Home Front (3ABN).

16. Dr. Walt Thompson said something about Danny Shelton’s willingness to share the burden with Pastor Doug Batchelor.

17. The future officers are not decided however Doug Batchelor will be the likely President.

18. Danny may remain the CEO.

19. However things work out, Danny will not be leaving 3ABN.

[PeacefulBe]

UNCALLED FOR YOU SAY!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I crack up. How is that they have worked hard? AT WHAT? LORD HAVE MERCY!!!
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM AT A ANY BLACK CONFERENCE CONCERT or major event. I have never seen TAKE 6, Virtue, Duawne Starling or Favored, or Madison Mission choir or any GOSPEL choir on their network. And you say they have been working Hard??? HOW? WHEN????

I know for a FACT because in the position that I am in PRESIDENT OF A MUSICAL ORGANIZATION. I called 3ABN to ask them to come and be apart of the music and worship conferences which the NAD supports. I have yet to even get a real conversation with them about that. They hemmed and hawed around but the bottom line was they were NOT interested.

As for Amazing Facts...YES they are just as Lilly white. My church in Atlanta recently showed the video series about the last day events. Great video with great acting...they had the best animation I have seen almost as good as disney's. But in the entire video, there was NOT ONE BLACK FACE!!!!

It was SO obvious that our SOUTH ATLANTIC CONFERENCE PRESIDENT comented that he was hoping that didn't mean we were not going to heaven. Now I tell you...as an African American in this church in 2007. How can we preach love when CLEARLY we are not seeing the WHOLE TRUTH on racisim. It might not be intentional but it's clearly still here. 2 blacks on 1 one networks is NOT a true reflection of our church. So don't tell me about 3ABN trying. THey ain't trying. What they are trying to do is staying up in that hillbilly town and making money. And by no means do I feel they haven't done a great deal of good. But let's face it. Trying to appeal to all is not what they are doing.

I would gladly support both organizations. But honestly, I could care less whether they merge or to stay separate. But what I do care about is if the Black church supports 3ABN and Amazing facts, then the least they could do is make a REAL effort to provide African Americans apart of their programming and planning in a real way.

The fact remains in our church blacks and whites worship differently our music is different and we will NEVER agree on music. So white people have their thing and mean while the blacks struggle with ours. That is a fact. Until we accept that we all worship differently, there are always going to be this issue.

pmorris,

That popping sound you hear is from my eyes as they are opened further to the color issue we have in our denomination. That 3abn would try to put on the facade of diversity while not expanding their narrow definition of acceptable music to include the very music that nourishes many in this country and around the world shows a lack of respect for the diversity they are outwardly promoting.

PrincessDi has similarly experienced and previously commented on the lack of color on the Amazing Facts video you refer to. I would invite you to add your perspective to the discussion we are having about the color line in our church over in the Adventist and Theology forums. Click here to go directly to the Color Line thread

I would like to point out that disagreement about music style is not just a black/white issue. In my own racially diverse congregation it has been a controversy for years. When a pastor decided to limit the old standard hymns to one per service and bring in a 3 - 4 song Praise Music segment to feed the younger members of the church, a group of more conservative members got up in arms. When that pastor left and our present pastor arrived he continued the Praise Worship service. The consequences have been a small trickle out of the church of some of those more conservative members who have moved their memberships to other SDA churches in the area. The benefits, though, have been that our congregation is growing and strengthening. I am even seeing some of the more conservative members who have stayed in the congregation start to catch the spirit of the worship service and find the blessing that has always been there.

PB

[simplysaved]

But it still is not diverse nor is it representative of what is presented in most Black churches...that is the point.

I think 3abn has done well in recent years to bring in more Black representation in programming, as well as in musical talent. I won't judge what the leadership's motivation has been to do so, but I certainly think it is a move forward. I would not characterize them as lily white by any stretch of the imagination. As far as Amazing Facts and Doug Batchelor, I used to watch a lot more of the Sabbath School and Church progamming from the Central church and I recall that the audience was not lily white.

Now, I know that some say there are those in leadership who make unChristian remarks behind closed doors, but the fact remains that there is a great move for more representation and that is a good thing.
HOTY

edited html

Thanks for the transcript re-cap, Daryl!

I took notes on what happened on the live program pertaining to the merger, and here they are in numbered format:

3ABN Live Notes – April 19, 2007

1. Danny Shelton said he had offered Pastor Doug Batchelor a position with 3ABN and he turned it down.

2. Then Danny Shelton offered Pastor Doug Batchelor the position as president and he again turned it down.

3. Then they got the idea of merging the ministries, 3ABN and Amazing Facts.

4. Garwin McNeilius thought this would be a great merger.

5. Shelley Quinn said to Danny Shelton, “When you offered him (referring to Pastor Doug Batchelor) the presidency.....”

6. Monday, April 16th, the 3ABN Board voted for merging with Amazing Facts.

7. Wednesday, April 18th, the Amazing Facts Board voted for merging with 3ABN.

8. New Board.

9. T9, page 221 quote re moving the world.

10. R&H 1890 quote re pressing together.

11. Join these ministries…..

12. 3ABN sees itself as a Supporting Ministry of the SDA Church, not as an Independent Ministry.

13. Danny Shelton alluded to Pastor Doug Batchelor as becoming President of 3ABN from this merger.

14. 3ABN and Amazing Facts will retain their individual identities.

15. Mollie will continue to take care of the Home Front (3ABN).

16. Dr. Walt Thompson said something about Danny Shelton’s willingness to share the burden with Pastor Doug Batchelor.

17. The future officers are not decided however Doug Batchelor will be the likely President.

18. Danny may remain the CEO.

19. However things work out, Danny will not be leaving 3ABN.

This post has been edited by simplysaved: Apr 20 2007, 07:25 AM

[caribbean sda]

Don't you know the white Adventists will come over the side where the black Adventists live when they want to listen to our music - yes racist garbage words has been spilled from the mouths of Adventists.....

It's still hard to believe that someone actually spoke those words...but nothing surprises this Island Dweller anymore...

This post has been edited by caribbean sda: Apr 20 2007, 07:27 AM

[simplysaved]

The only thing to remember, Daryl, is that IF indeed this will truly be a merger, the two will not be able to remain separate entities. Danny will no doubt be a part of this in management, but I do not believe that he will be the president or the C.E.O. I just do not see Doug Batchelor answering to him...the since I got from the broadcast last night is that THEY WANT Doug Batchelor to become the neww leader--I may be wrong here, but that was how I took it.

PREACH TRUTH, PAULA!!!!

UNCALLED FOR YOU SAY!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I crack up. How is that they have worked hard? AT WHAT? LORD HAVE MERCY!!!
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM AT A ANY BLACK CONFERENCE CONCERT or major event. I have never seen TAKE 6, Virtue, Duawne Starling or Favored, or Madison Mission choir or any GOSPEL choir on their network. And you say they have been working Hard??? HOW? WHEN????

I know for a FACT because in the position that I am in PRESIDENT OF A MUSICAL ORGANIZATION. I called 3ABN to ask them to come and be apart of the music and worship conferences which the NAD supports. I have yet to even get a real conversation with them about that. They hemmed and hawed around but the bottom line was they were NOT interested.

As for Amazing Facts...YES they are just as Lilly white. My church in Atlanta recently showed the video series about the last day events. Great video with great acting...they had the best animation I have seen almost as good as disney's. But in the entire video, there was NOT ONE BLACK FACE!!!!

It was SO obvious that our SOUTH ATLANTIC CONFERENCE PRESIDENT comented that he was hoping that didn't mean we were not going to heaven. Now I tell you...as an African American in this church in 2007. How can we preach love when CLEARLY we are not seeing the WHOLE TRUTH on racisim. It might not be intentional but it's clearly still here. 2 blacks on 1 one networks is NOT a true reflection of our church. So don't tell me about 3ABN trying. THey ain't trying. What they are trying to do is staying up in that hillbilly town and making money. And by no means do I feel they haven't done a great deal of good. But let's face it. Trying to appeal to all is not what they are doing.

I would gladly support both organizations. But honestly, I could care less whether they merge or to stay separate. But what I do care about is if the Black church supports 3ABN and Amazing facts, then the least they could do is make a REAL effort to provide African Americans apart of their programming and planning in a real way.

The fact remains in our church blacks and whites worship differently our music is different and we will NEVER agree on music. So white people have their thing and mean while the blacks struggle with ours. That is a fact. Until we accept that we all worship differently, there are always going to be this issue.

This post has been edited by simplysaved: Apr 20 2007, 07:33 AM

[PeacefulBe]

But it still is not diverse nor is it representative of what is presented in most Black churches...that is the point.

Simply,
Point taken and seconded. Just wonder if it is because of racism by the leadership or...?

Danny referred to Wently Phipp's proposed channel that is being developed. It will be interesting to see how that network feeds the flocks. I'll buy one of the new-fangled boxes they were advertising last night if Wently's channel truly represents Black worship services and music.

[watchbird]

Simply,
Point taken and seconded. Just wonder if it is because of racism by the leadership or...?

Danny referred to Wently Phipp's proposed channel that is being developed. It will be interesting to see how that network feeds the flocks. I'll buy one of the new-fangled boxes they were advertising last night if Wently's channel truly represents Black worship services and music.

........ Excuse me... a white channel proposing to develop a black channel..... what am I missing? How is this anything but just an updated version of segregated churches, segregated conferences, and a segregated heaven

Shouldn't our aim be for all channels to be fully integrated? And if channels have specialties in programming, let that be along other lines than those which already divide us.... racial, doctrinal, an music styles. One can see the appropriateness of LLBN, for example, being weighted towards health issues. One could see a worship/inspiration channel staying away from doctrinal and health programing. One could see a music channel carrying only music... either video or live performances. But IMO all channels should organize their programming so that no race or other group within the Adventist church feels left out of, or slighted by, the programming content or appearance. Not all programs need to appeal to all tastes, cultures, doctrinal biases, or races... but certainly the channel as a whole should offer a balanced fare with something for each individual.

....................................

[vanburton]

I took notes on what happened on the live program pertaining to the merger, and here they are in numbered format:

3ABN Live Notes – April 19, 2007

1. Danny Shelton said he had offered Pastor Doug Batchelor a position with 3ABN and he turned it down.

2. Then Danny Shelton offered Pastor Doug Batchelor the position as president and he again turned it down.

3. Then they got the idea of merging the ministries, 3ABN and Amazing Facts.

4. Garwin McNeilius thought this would be a great merger.

5. Shelley Quinn said to Danny Shelton, “When you offered him (referring to Pastor Doug Batchelor) the presidency.....”

6. Monday, April 16th, the 3ABN Board voted for merging with Amazing Facts.

7. Wednesday, April 18th, the Amazing Facts Board voted for merging with 3ABN.

8. New Board.

9. T9, page 221 quote re moving the world.

10. R&H 1890 quote re pressing together.

11. Join these ministries…..

12. 3ABN sees itself as a Supporting Ministry of the SDA Church, not as an Independent Ministry.

13. Danny Shelton alluded to Pastor Doug Batchelor as becoming President of 3ABN from this merger.

14. 3ABN and Amazing Facts will retain their individual identities.

15. Mollie will continue to take care of the Home Front (3ABN).

16. Dr. Walt Thompson said something about Danny Shelton’s willingness to share the burden with Pastor Doug Batchelor.

17. The future officers are not decided however Doug Batchelor will be the likely President.

18. Danny may remain the CEO.

19. However things work out, Danny will not be leaving 3ABN.

Where was JL? He was present at the other "live" defense shows of DS. Anyone know?

[Denny]

I thought the channel was urban based or does urban automatically equate to black? What they need is a channel that appeals to youth the present set up from what I have seen looks so boring even for me who is a senior youth.

[RomFive5]

. . . I wish we could be closer to the mind of Christ on this matter. Can we not try at least to view the most superior divine Chess master still involved with His church on earth at this moment, still? We are the pawns, let Him be the player.

. . . God is setting up the chess board and calling the shots. . . .

Amen and amen!! "Above the distractions of the earth He sits enthroned; all things are open to His divine survey; and from His great and calm eternity He orders that which His providence sees best." 8T 272 (can also be found in CC 77, FLB 42, and MH 417).

[hollybygolly]

Wow, talk about a letdown. Just finished listening to the not so great 3ABN live.

I am sad and very disappointed. I had always hoped that someday this godly man called Doug Batchelor would somehow help DS realize the error of his ways. And TS's grossly overlooked sins.

Now that Doug and ASI have crawled into bed with DS, words cannot express my frustration.

I have refused to listen to DS for several years because I consider him to be a narcissist; so full of himself. His "preaching" always takes a back seat to his stories, rambling and rambling about himself and his own interests. (Did you ever just want to slap him and say "get to the point"?)
I could see Linda's uneasiness at times about the way he talked instead of letting his guests talk.

Regretfully, I no longer believe that Doug is necessarily the preacher needed for the "last days". I have completely lost confidence in him. Just like all pastors I knew growing up, he chose not to
address an issue such as sex, immorality, homosexuality, adultery. Just ignore it long enough
and it will go away.

DS will now most certainly hide under the umbrella of Doug. This merger will probably kill any chance of Linda getting the justice that she so much deserves.

I do not for a moment believe that God's hand is in this so-called merger. I am ashamed of all
the SDA leaders for their lack of calling Danny and Tommy to accountability. How can DS even
speak of "bringing the undiluted 3-angels message to the whole world. HYPOCRITE he is.

msraccoon

I am sorry you feel that way about the merger - its too bad so many are negative about it, instead of watching to see what God has in mind. God is still in control, no matter what.
What you said about bringing Danny and Tommy to light, did you expect them to address that on 3ABN last night? A real investigation hasnt even begun yet, right? I think they want to approach this carefully. Don't get me wrong, from what I have read and heard about this situation, it does seem that alot of hypocrisy and dishonesty and immorality has gone on, but we can hardly assume that the day that Doug was named president would be the day to publicly reproach Danny and Tommy and whoever else. Lets just let it marinate for a little bit and pray as we wait.
Lets try and focus on the positive - at least something has been done. It seems like so many are STILL complaining, even though a step in the right direction (taking some of the power from Danny) has happened.

........ Excuse me... a white channel proposing to develop a black channel..... what am I missing? How is this anything but just an updated version of segregated churches, segregated conferences, and a segregated heaven

Shouldn't our aim be for all channels to be fully integrated? And if channels have specialties in programming, let that be along other lines than those which already divide us.... racial, doctrinal, an music styles. One can see the appropriateness of LLBN, for example, being weighted towards health issues. One could see a worship/inspiration channel staying away from doctrinal and health programing. One could see a music channel carrying only music... either video or live performances. But IMO all channels should organize their programming so that no race or other group within the Adventist church feels left out of, or slighted by, the programming content or appearance. Not all programs need to appeal to all tastes, cultures, doctrinal biases, or races... but certainly the channel as a whole should offer a balanced fare with something for each individual.

....................................

amen!!!

[simplysaved]

........ Excuse me... a white channel proposing to develop a black channel..... what am I missing? How is this anything but just an updated version of segregated churches, segregated conferences, and a segregated heaven

Shouldn't our aim be for all channels to be fully integrated? And if channels have specialties in programming, let that be along other lines than those which already divide us.... racial, doctrinal, an music styles. One can see the appropriateness of LLBN, for example, being weighted towards health issues. One could see a worship/inspiration channel staying away from doctrinal and health programing. One could see a music channel carrying only music... either video or live performances. But IMO all channels should organize their programming so that no race or other group within the Adventist church feels left out of, or slighted by, the programming content or appearance. Not all programs need to appeal to all tastes, cultures, doctrinal biases, or races... but certainly the channel as a whole should offer a balanced fare with something for each individual.

....................................

Thanks for making me laugh this morning....right when I needed it!