Change In 3-abn Leadership Options

[LaurenceD]

"WHy the secrecy? To try to keep the false rumors, stories and allegations down to a minimum until the merger announcement was made. On these forums it has been bad enough as it is."

When I was watching that part, I got the feeling that it was necessary to emphasize the secrecy in order to give the dream more credibility. In the dream, someone related how they saw a long table and all the players sitting there, except for two--a man who the dreamer couldn't identify, and a woman). If you present the meeting as only known to two at 3abn (Danny and Mollie), how could anyone else possibly know, and how else could the dream be so accurate--except by inspiration? This helps support the merger to know God is behind it--even with dreams and visions.

About that time...Doug gave the dreamer a little friendly poke with his witty humor. He said the Bible says old men shall have dreams (and young men vsions). Everyone got a laugh out of that becasue the dreamer isn't that old!

[watchbird]

Please don't think that everyone is greeting this move with "joyfull anticipation".

The old saying.... "Birds of a feather flock together" bears careful consideration.

This one also.... "One reveals his own character by the character of those with whom he associates most closely."

And one more.....The golden rule.... "He who has the gold makes the rules."

We are looking at two TV actors. Let's not mistake role playing for something other than what it is.

.................................

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the "actors" comment if you are referring to them the way of TV actors. I think that is totally unfair. At least in reference to both of them.

Holly, I will agree with you in part, but also stand by my statement. In general, professional actors can take on any character they want.... and they "become" or "create" that character so much that we identify them with the character for the duration of that movie..... until they take on another character when they "become" that other character in some other movie. So in that sense, the "cast" of the 3abn presentations are not like "TV actors"... for they always portray the same character each time they are on camera.

However, the point I am making is that these people come... like TV actors... into our living rooms.... they look us in the eye and talk to us seemingly one-on-one.... and we feel as though we knew them through and through, for we hear them tell the same stories over and over, make the same points, exhibit the same characteristics in varying circumstances. And as a result we judge their characters, motives, personalities, how they relate to persons in real life.... and many more aspects of them .... by what we have seen on the screen. And it is easy to forget that we do not, in fact, have any idea as to whether their screen image is the same as what they are in real life when they are interacting with real people.

But the impressions that we have from what we have seen sticks with us so strongly, that even when a number of persons, who know the individual personally, relate experiences to show something different.... it is extremely difficult... with some it is well nigh impossible... to believe any differently from our opinions formed while this person "sat with us in our living room" so many hours through so many years.

This is a phenomena of human nature. And it is one that is known and used by performers in all walks of life... including, sad to say, TV Evangelists as well as professional TV actors who change characters with a change of contract or script.

[dkay]

Holly, I will agree with you in part, but also stand by my statement. In general, professional actors can take on any character they want.... and they "become" or "create" that character so much that we identify them with the character for the duration of that movie..... until they take on another character when they "become" that other character in some other movie. So in that sense, the "cast" of the 3abn presentations are not like "TV actors"... for they always portray the same character each time they are on camera.

However, the point I am making is that these people come... like TV actors... into our living rooms.... they look us in the eye and talk to us seemingly one-on-one.... and we feel as though we knew them through and through, for we hear them tell the same stories over and over, make the same points, exhibit the same characteristics in varying circumstances. And as a result we judge their characters, motives, personalities, how they relate to persons in real life.... and many more aspects of them .... by what we have seen on the screen. And it is easy to forget that we do not, in fact, have any idea as to whether their screen image is the same as what they are in real life when they are interacting with real people.

But the impressions that we have from what we have seen sticks with us so strongly, that even when a number of persons, who know the individual personally, relate experiences to show something different.... it is extremely difficult... with some it is well nigh impossible... to believe any differently from our opinions formed while this person "sat with us in our living room" so many hours through so many years.

This is a phenomena of human nature. And it is one that is known and used by performers in all walks of life... including, sad to say, TV Evangelists as well as professional TV actors who change characters with a change of contract or script.

Amen!! Thank you for speaking out and giving us food for thought! This merger is troubling for many of us who say little and are watching from the sidelines.

[watchbird]

When I was watching that part, I got the feeling that it was necessary to emphasize the secrecy in order to give the dream more credibility. In the dream, someone related how they saw a long table and all the players sitting there, except for two--a man who the dreamer couldn't identify, and a woman). If you present the meeting as only known to two at 3abn (Danny and Mollie), how could anyone else possibly know, and how else could the dream be so accurate--except by inspiration? This helps support the merger to know God is behind it--even with dreams and visions.

About that time...Doug gave the dreamer a little friendly poke with his witty humor. He said the Bible says old men shall have dreams (and young men vsions). Everyone got a laugh out of that becasue the dreamer isn't that old!

Yes Laurence... I think you have nailed this one correctly. And do note the comparison of this present situation with the "vision" story which Danny has used through the years to "prove beyond the shadow of a doubt" that he had been divinely appointed to do just what he has done. That initial story must have been getting a little stale... even to him... but now look... he has not merely one, but five or six such dreams/visions/miracles/signs stories on which to build his bigger and better Amazing Facts/3abn!

I'm sure that if we knew all the "facts" one would indeed call them "amazing".... but I rather suspect we would find them amazing in amazingly different ways from what the leaders of that ministy would prefer.

This post has been edited by watchbird: Apr 22 2007, 09:52 AM

[inga]

to BlackSDA, Grith

I watched the program Thursday evening (thanks to seeing the announcement at BSDA). I've been reading the responses here, but I heard something that no one has commented on thus far. Danny stated that there had been a secret meeting in Denver with himself, DB, and Garwin McNeilus. That brought a few questions to mind:

1. Why did they have to meet with McNeilus? I know that he is very wealthy and apparently that gives him a lot of clout?
2. Why was it immportant to meet with McNeilus? Why was his input/counsel/approval needed?
3. Why was the meeting secret. From what I remember DS said that even Molly didn't know.
4. Why would it be so important to get one layman's OK but not all those other who are or have supported AF/3ABN?

Does anyone have any ideas?

And thanks for this contribution. Because I didn't personally watch 3ABNLive, I've relied on feedback from others, and you are the first to mention this extremely significant detail. It confirms my personal hunch on the matter that Garvin McNeilus possibly initiated this merger.

McNeilus characteristically controls things from the background. He does not reveal how much he contributes to whom. He does not take board positions, but when he asks to see anyone, he gets ushered right in. And folks listen to him. (Yes, money talks.)

It is fairly certain that McNeilus has been a big contributor to 3ABN (think in millions, rather than thousands). Just when contributions likely fell off due to Linda's leaving, Danny announced that contributions increased. If that is true -- which isn't necessarily so -- it's easy to see how one deep-pocketed contributor could have provided this "increase" to make things look good for one of his proteges.

If the rumor of 3ABN's 3-million-dollar deficit in the first quarter of 2007 is true, it is likely that McNeilus decided to quit propping up 3ABN.

McNeilus is also very likely a big contributor to Amazing Facts, a ministry not plagued by scandals such as those dogging 3ABN. Doug Batchelor's reputation is clean, so far. It doesn't take a genius to calculate that Doug's taking over 3ABN would "save 3ABN," which is what McNeilus would want to do.

As to why this meeting was "secret" ... I think you'll find the answer in what I suggested about McNeilus's habitual mode of operation. The fact that the rank and file of Adventists has no idea who Garvin McNeilus is testifies to his "secret" mode of operation. (I suspect that many ministries and missions owe their existence to the contributions of the McNeilus family.)

This post has been edited by inga: Apr 22 2007, 11:35 AM

[no_cults]

In my own church example, we had one Sabbath praise music session that included drums along with the guitars and piano. It was so loudly done that it was hard to hear the words above the music. A number of older members got up and left in protest. I could understand that, especially if they wore hearing aids, as the decibles of that particular group were making my ears hurt as well. I was tempted to leave for that reason alone. However, as the pastor brought the sermon I marveled at the spiritual blessing I would have missed if I had left.

Isn't this what we should be looking for no matter who is standing behind the pulpit or even their style of preaching? Are the words of the Holy Spirit to be ignored if the one speaking uses a different style? Would it harm us to open our ears to seek God's message no matter the color of the face it comes through?

Just wondering...

Shoot.... I have heard that the big church in Arlington,Tx. even has smoke along
with guitars and drums. (second service)

Please, someone tell me that I am wrong!!!

Someone somewhere on one of these threads made a remark about Danny having little guy syndrome. I had no idea he was short. I knew Linda was very tall.. taller than Barbara and I stood by her when she was in the area to see how tall Linda would be and I would guess that Barbara was at least 5' 5-8" tall. Hmmmm

I suppose so... guess I always considered the "little man syndrome" man to be about 5" 4" tall or shorter.

Gotta rethink this

Yep Danny was really in his prime last night. A brand new (seldom used? different style anyway) cowboy suit, not the usual matching jacket and turtle neck sweater. He took up almost 20 minutes telling his story before letting anyone else give their story.

I don't really like the idea of some of the folk sitting and others standing on the show last night and other Tuesday night live programs. Just doesn't set well with me. Walt leaning down over Danny's shoulder, etc. Just my opinion I like it that they are all sitting around in semi circle. It could be that it can't happen so the camera can pan Danny as much as possible and not look like it is focusing Danny that much.

Wonder how much bonus the camera man/woman gets for panning Danny certain number of times a program... sorry folk... guess I sound kinda not nice.

Have a happy Sabbath
Rosyroi

Yup... I have heard the same thing. Not only a short guy, but also
light in the hair department. Amazing what a good rug or transplant
can do!

[dkay]

Well you heard wrong again. 3abn has always functioned on a break even basis, they aren't in debt but don't have anything saved either. That is cash we are talking about. At anytime of the ministry was desperate for funds they have millions of dollars of assets and some of those assets could be sold off if need be. Thankfully they have not had to do that.

Doug seemed caged and reserved? Why? It was his choice to do this merge now. It had been discussed at other times but he didn't feel the time was right until now. Those of you that keep insinuating that Doug was forced into this by someone, somehow in some way try to use your thinking caps to extract some common sense. AF is respected and so is Doug. It is a successful ministry and has been for a very long time. Now why would anyone and who would that be that would "force" Doug to merge with 3abn? People all your speculation is making no sense. How could it be any more simple that 2 great ministries joining together to increase their evangelizing power? You all need to get over your own misguided beliefs and agenda's and start praising God.
And Yes PB. I did get it firsthand that Doug could care less about the allegations on the internet. Just ask Gailon if Doug would take his call today.

Excuse me!! I understand that there was no call to Gailon!! Why would Steffan lie about this when the truth is that Doug never called Gailon?? Let's get the facts straight and quit with the stories.

[no_cults]

I am sorry, I had to post here after hearing all that is being said here. It is too funny not to.
Doug and Danny had a meeting Thursday at 4pm central time with all of the 3abn employees. They were told that this merge would not change any of their positions, work schedules or anything else. Doug made a point to say that he intends to keep his church in Sacramento and still run amazing facts and WOULD NOT have any say in day to day 3abn operations just as Danny will have no say in day to day operations of AF. Except for a merger of the boards and Danny and Doug taking more time to evangelize, most everything will remain as is. Doug and Danny, AF & 3abn will remain 2000 miles apart and will continue business as usual with Danny over 3abn and Doug over AF.
So, all this business of Doug cleaning house or that he doesn't realize what he has gotten himself into is absolutely a huge laugh. He had 20 or so highly respected people on his board advising him as well as Danny's board advising him. AF and 3ABN has worked together closely for years. That is the reason the AF people are not worried about allegations. They know they are false and shrug off the people behind it. To say that Danny was running scared as stated above is, again, crazy. If he was running scared he would have resigned, not expanded, and remained in charge of 3abn.
Not hard people, get a grip. As much as you hate to face it, that is the truth of it. As much as you want to read stuff into it, you can't. It is all good.

You need to preach a little louder to those with the checkbooks.

[mozart]

wow that is a huge and a hard to imagine possibility. in some ways, it would be great, but i don't see any way that linda could work with mollie and john l. etc. that possibility would be an incredible feat of attorneyism. however, what i was thinking is that to make some wrongs right, 3abn should have linda back in some way, if simply to have her own show and even that small part in comparison to what she was before all this. i think, and it's sad to say however, but that would be enough to make danny not want to be there anymore. apologies and reparations really need to be done towards linda, and i hope someday these folks will listen to God first.

the rerun is on now and i'm taping this time.

It is very difficult for anyone to verify the real reasons for this merger. Just now a friend called and voiced yet another unsubstantiated opinion, which reminds me that BSDA is not a court, but a place where we voice our opinions.

This friend feels that with the new lawyer appearing on the scene Danny fears that the question of Linda's future role in connection with 3ABN could be one of the reasons this proposed merge with Amazing Facts was propelled just now. Why? Because if it is revealed that Linda was wrongfully dismissed in 2004, that destroys Danny's credibility and he looses the face he so desperately tries to exhibit on every program, magazine and web page associated with 3ABN. This is why we see the desperate fight his supporters are still fighting on the Christian Forum or wherever their presence is still allowed. May God have mercy!

Let's pray His will be revealed, and His name glorified, and not a mere political image of . . . !!!

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 22 2007, 02:13 PM

[lurker]

Link to comments at the Spectrum blog about the merger announcement http://tinyurl.com/2hynlc

[no_cults]

I think it's too early to draw conclusions, but I'm somewhat troubled by the seeming joyfull anticipation of Amazing Facts joining hands with an organization badly tainted with credible allegations of moral and financial corruption. Some are saying Doug Batchelor does not believe the accusations and ignores the documentation.

I used to admire Danny Shelton and 3ABN.

I still admire Doug Batchelor and Amazing Facts.

Be careful, Pastor Doug.

I feel the same way abt. DB. I also will be watching him close.
He's smart, but people aren't easily fooled.

[dkay]

Shoot.... I have heard that the big church in Arlington,Tx. even has smoke along
with guitars and drums. (second service)

Please, someone tell me that I am wrong!!!


Yup... I have heard the same thing. Not only a short guy, but also
light in the hair department. Amazing what a good rug or transplant
can do!

This post has been edited by dkay: Apr 22 2007, 02:17 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Shoot.... I have heard that the big church in Arlington,Tx. even has smoke along
with guitars and drums. (second service)

Please, someone tell me that I am wrong!!!

NC,
Please don't misunderstand my post. I am not criticizing praise-style music worships. Just the ones that are so loud it hurts. Don't think I'd like a smoke machine going though...

The point of my post was that if we get too focused on things about our worship services that we find fault with or take exception to, we can miss the blessing the Holy Spirit has planned for us. If I had walked out of that service because of the loud music, I would have missed some spiritual food that I really, desperately needed that day. I stayed and and was sumptuously fed! (and my ears recovered fairly quickly)

Excuse me!! I understand that there was no call to Gailon!! Why would Steffan lie about this when the truth is that Doug never called Gailon?? Let's get the facts straight and quit with the stories.

dkay,
Steffan said that Gailon tried to call Doug and Doug would not talk to him. I haven't seen any corroboration that Gailon attempted to make the call. That is just what Steffan is reporting.

PB

[dkay]

NC,
Please don't misunderstand my post. I am not criticizing praise-style music worships. Just the ones that are so loud it hurts. Don't think I'd like a smoke machine going though...

The point of my post was that if we get too focused on things about our worship services that we find fault with or take exception to, we can miss the blessing the Holy Spirit has planned for us. If I had walked out of that service because of the loud music, I would have missed some spiritual food that I really, desperately needed that day. I stayed and and was sumptuously fed! (and my ears recovered fairly quickly)
dkay,
Steffan said that Gailon tried to call Doug and Doug would not talk to him. I haven't seen any corroboration that Gailon attempted to make the call. That is just what Steffan is reporting.

PB

Steffan is not telling the truth. Gailon never tried to call Doug. So sad that we cannot stick to the truth.

[dkay]

Yes, I picked up on that too. "Well, we don't really know how this will all take place and who will be on the board and what resources will be shared and what role we will all play....but we need your money."

Just wondering.......if a new board is make up of AF, 3ABN, and ASI individuals...then where does that leave the majority of power....in Danny's pocket? Also can ASI have anyone on the board...since AF is an entity of the church? I understand ASI rules restrict membership to independent ministries and businesses and will not allow any church entity to belong. We are all watching and we are very concerned about this so called merger.