Change In 3-abn Leadership Options

[hollybygolly]

Holly, I will agree with you in part, but also stand by my statement. In general, professional actors can take on any character they want.... and they "become" or "create" that character so much that we identify them with the character for the duration of that movie..... until they take on another character when they "become" that other character in some other movie. So in that sense, the "cast" of the 3abn presentations are not like "TV actors"... for they always portray the same character each time they are on camera.

However, the point I am making is that these people come... like TV actors... into our living rooms.... they look us in the eye and talk to us seemingly one-on-one.... and we feel as though we knew them through and through, for we hear them tell the same stories over and over, make the same points, exhibit the same characteristics in varying circumstances. And as a result we judge their characters, motives, personalities, how they relate to persons in real life.... and many more aspects of them .... by what we have seen on the screen. And it is easy to forget that we do not, in fact, have any idea as to whether their screen image is the same as what they are in real life when they are interacting with real people.

But the impressions that we have from what we have seen sticks with us so strongly, that even when a number of persons, who know the individual personally, relate experiences to show something different.... it is extremely difficult... with some it is well nigh impossible... to believe any differently from our opinions formed while this person "sat with us in our living room" so many hours through so many years.

This is a phenomena of human nature. And it is one that is known and used by performers in all walks of life... including, sad to say, TV Evangelists as well as professional TV actors who change characters with a change of contract or script.

Just because we watch people on 3ABN and Amazing Facts does not mean that we know every little detail about each of their lives. Might as well call our own pastors "actors", because we dont know what they are like at home, when no one but their own family is around, right? What's the point of having televised evangelism and christian programs? - Because they ALL must be "acting".
I firmly believe that man is fallible and imperfect. I also beleive that God wants us to have a little bit of faith in people - not to make or break us religously, but God has obviously chosen some to be more in the spotlight than others. Does this mean that we discount and doubt everything they do or say? Should we refuse to go to church because we might be listening to an "actor"? No way. Sounds like you are suspicious of just about everyone that is on TV. I would have to agree with that, if I watched regular cable TV on a regular basis, but 3ABN and Amazing Facts is decidedly different.
If you are meaning that we should have our eyes open, and question when evangelists and pastors don't seem to be living their lives according to what the Bible says, then I could see that. But having faith in NO one just because we have been disappointed by SOMEone, I just dont agree. Life would be pretty lonely and sad.

[PeacefulBe]

Steffan is not telling the truth. Gailon never tried to call Doug. So sad that we cannot stick to the truth.

dkay,

Who is your source for this info? It would be great to be able to take this information to steffan.

PB

[mozart]

NC,
Please don't misunderstand my post. I am not criticizing praise-style music worships. Just the ones that are so loud it hurts. Don't think I'd like a smoke machine going though...

The point of my post was that if we get too focused on things about our worship services that we find fault with or take exception to, we can miss the blessing the Holy Spirit has planned for us. If I had walked out of that service because of the loud music, I would have missed some spiritual food that I really, desperately needed that day. I stayed and and was sumptuously fed! (and my ears recovered fairly quickly)

PB

not sure how this subject got over here but, i'm borrowing this post from PP since i couldn't say it any better. This is (i think i have this subject thread going on over at the heading "your local church" )

quote pinkpanther
"Even if wicked men talk the truth, some may receive it; but it does not bring those who talked it into any more favor with God. Wicked men are wicked men still, and according to the deception they practiced upon those who were beloved of God, and according to the confusion brought into the church, so will be their punishment; their sins will not remain covered, but will be exposed in the day of God's fierce anger. {EW 98.1}
These self-sent messengers are a curse to the cause. Honest souls put confidence in them, thinking that they are moving in the counsel of God and that they are in union with the church, and therefore suffer them to administer the ordinances, and, as duty is made plain that they must do their first works, allow themselves to be baptized by them. But when light comes, as it surely will, and they are aware that these men are not what they understood them to be, God's called and chosen messengers, they are thrown into trial and doubt as to the truth they have received and feel that they must learn it all over again; they are troubled and perplexed by the enemy about all their experience, whether God has led them or not, and are not satisfied until they are again baptized and begin anew. It is much more wearing to the spirits of God's messengers to go into places where those have been who have exerted this wrong influence than to enter new fields. God's servants have to deal plainly, act openly, and not cover up wrongs; for they are standing between the living and the dead and must render an account of their faithfulness, their mission, and the influence they exert over the flock of which the Lord has made them overseers. {EW 99.1}
Those who receive the truth and are brought into such trials would have had the truth the same if these men had stayed away and filled the humble place the Lord designed for them."
Early Writings

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 22 2007, 03:56 PM

[dkay]

dkay,

Who is your source for this info? It would be great to be able to take this information to steffan.

PB

Very good source who spoke personally with Gailon.

dkay

[PeacefulBe]

For those of you following steffan's claims that Gailon Arthur Joy called Amazing Facts sometime after the Thursday Night Live program on 3abn when the 3abn/AF merger was announced, I would submit the following first pararaph of an email I received. It is posted with full permission from Gailon Arthur Joy:

----- Original Message -----
From: G. Arthur Joy
To: *************
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Steffan's claims


I have not made any call to Doug Batchelor. We know that he was airborne Thursday until 3:00pm and doing his presentation at 3ABN staff meeting at 4:00pm and then the live at 8:00pm CDT. He was then airborne back to California from 10:00 am on Friday. And the most important note is that Amazing Facts was closed on Friday, as it is every Friday. So when would we have called to demand to speak with Doug Batchelor?

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

So, why would steffan make the claim he did? Is he bearing false witness? Someone certainly is.

[Eirene]

F

So, why would steffan make the claim he did? Is he bearing false witness? Someone certainly is.

Questions:
1. So far has Joy's "reports" and claims always been factual?
2. Can someone help me to understand the importance of whether Joy called DB or he didn't?
3. If someone trustworthy told Steffan that Joy called and he repeated it, then it wouldn't be a lie would it?
4. Why are the items that we do know as facts having to repeated over and over and over?
5. What is hard to understand that Doug is not taking over or going to run 3abn?
6. What is hard to understand that Danny is not taking over or going to run AF?
7. How many times does it have to be stated that 3abn is NOT in debt and in fact have assets worth more than AF?
8. How hard is it to understand that since 3abn is not in debt all the speculation about Garwin M and his role is uneducated fantasy.
9. The actual role he has played in the merger as a rep of ASI and Global Missions has been explained, but is too hard to understand?
10. What is the meaning of the wild feeding frenzy on this merger?
11. What can't you except about 2 ministries joining to evangelize without running each other's ministries?
12. By continuing to speculate that one ministry will be able to take over the other shows a lack of business knowledge, common sense, is an insult to all of those involved in this merger and last but not least shows a general lack of intelligence...doesn't it?
13. Are we that ignorant as to think that specifications, rules, regulations and safeguards were not written up legally to avoid any possibility of #12 happening?
14. Can we not see that while major agreements, have been written in stone there will be plenty more smaller details worked out as they go?
15. How many of you that are spouting all of this stuff will slink off into the sunset when it doesn't come to pass?
16. When it happens exactly the opposite of your sad scenerios, how many of you will jump on something else with yet again, new scenerios and accusations and will pretend these previous ones, never happened?

Very good source who spoke personally with Gailon.

dkay

I think that Steffan had a good source but since we all know that Joy always speaks exact truth, I am sure we should listen to him. And again, why anyone would waste time or energy on this phone call is beyond me. It amounts absolutely to nothing one way or the other.

[PeacefulBe]

Eirene,

Welcome to BSDA!

[Eirene]

Just because we watch people on 3ABN and Amazing Facts does not mean that we know every little detail about each of their lives. Might as well call our own pastors "actors", because we dont know what they are like at home, when no one but their own family is around, right? What's the point of having televised evangelism and christian programs? - Because they ALL must be "acting".
I firmly believe that man is fallible and imperfect. I also beleive that God wants us to have a little bit of faith in people - not to make or break us religously, but God has obviously chosen some to be more in the spotlight than others. Does this mean that we discount and doubt everything they do or say? Should we refuse to go to church because we might be listening to an "actor"? No way. Sounds like you are suspicious of just about everyone that is on TV. I would have to agree with that, if I watched regular cable TV on a regular basis, but 3ABN and Amazing Facts is decidedly different.
If you are meaning that we should have our eyes open, and question when evangelists and pastors don't seem to be living their lives according to what the Bible says, then I could see that. But having faith in NO one just because we have been disappointed by SOMEone, I just dont agree. Life would be pretty lonely and sad.

Holly, you have made some excellent points. If we see it through the eyes of WB then we could say we are all actors. Don't we put on a better face at work than at home sometime? Do we sometimes show more patience with others than with our own families? So then, are we actors? No we are human beings who all fall short. By the grace of God, he takes up the slack. I have seen those on relegious programs that come across as fake and insincere and I have seen those that "what you see is what you get." Doug B. and Danny S. are 2 examples of the latter.
WB has shown ill will toward 3abn and it's people for quite some time and every post she makes on the subject is tainted with innuendo, extreme speculation, and all the negativity that she can muster. Therefore, IMO, she can't be taken seriously when she is obviously so one sided.

[PeacefulBe]

GAJ, the accused, directly says he did not make the call.

steffan says he was told he did.

All may decide who to believe.

Perhaps so much emphasis has been paid to the proposed 3abn/AF merger because so much conflicting information was initially put out by all sides. There are a few of us out here who are trying to understand what is really happening.

Perhaps a lot of questions would not have been raised if the merger announcement had been delayed until more of the details were ironed out. But for some reason, it was deemed important to get the preliminary merger info out before that was done. Why that was raises even more questions.

Eirene,

It is important because someone who claims to know Doug and even knows what Doug thinks about some issues has claimed that Gailon made that call. If he is bearing false witness that shows something of his character and what he is willing to do to support his opinions. Steffan, himself, has made a big deal of it, repeating it numerous times.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Apr 22 2007, 09:26 PM

[Eirene]

GAJ, the accused, directly says he did not make the call.

steffan says he was told he did.

All may decide who to believe.

Perhaps so much emphasis has been paid to the proposed 3abn/AF merger because so much conflicting information was initially put out by all sides. There are a few of us out here who are trying to understand what is really happening.

Perhaps a lot of questions would not have been raised if the merger announcement had been delayed until more of the details were ironed out. But for some reason, it was deemed important to get the preliminary merger info out before that was done. Why that was raises even more questions.

Eirene,

It is important because someone who claims to know Doug and even knows what Doug thinks about some issues has claimed that Gailon made that call. If he is bearing false witness that shows something of his character and what he is willing to do to support his opinions. Steffan, himself, has made a big deal of it, repeating it numerous times.

And why would Steffan's credibility be in question and not Gailon's? Gailon could be telling the truth and the person that told Steffan could have been mistaken or not. Either way, I hardly think Steffan would have purposely lied over something that doesn't amount to anything. If you would spend as much time checking on Gailon's credibility in hundreds of statements, as you have one remark of Steffan's, we might get somewhere. Since this is such a major issue to you, why don't you just be patient and let's see if Doug takes any of Gailon's or Pickles calls in the future, then let's give Steffan the benefit of the doubt that IF he is wrong he was given wrong information and didn't lie, and let's always question any of Gailon's statements and stories since he has been proven wrong so many times before.
Fair?

[quote name='PeacefullyBewildered' date='Apr 22 2007, 09:25 PM' post='192510']
GAJ, the accused, directly says he did not make the call.

steffan says he was told he did.

All may decide who to believe.

Perhaps so much emphasis has been paid to the proposed 3abn/AF merger because so much conflicting information was initially put out by all sides. There are a few of us out here who are trying to understand what is really happening.

Perhaps a lot of questions would not have been raised if the merger announcement had been delayed until more of the details were ironed out. But for some reason, it was deemed important to get the preliminary merger info out before that was done. Why that was raises even more questions.


PB, so if things are too confusing for you and there are so many things you don't understand, again, why don't you wait patiently until even more details of the union are worked out and press releases are given. Until that time the smart thing to do would be to drop the subject period.

[PeacefulBe]

Eirene,

Even Doug himself knows that many questions have been raised by the merger

Gregory,

Here is a response from Pastor Batchelor. I know they are working hard on getting the most accurate answers for the many questions.
Thank yo for your e-mail.

Blessings,
Pastor Harold White



-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail address deleted as it was a private one.]
Sent: Sat, April 21, 2007 6:50 pm
To: Harold White
Subject: Answer for Common questions




Dear friend,
As expected, the historic announcement regarding plans to unite the ministries of Amazing Facts and 3ABN has generated a phenomenal response.
E-mails expressing support and praise to God have been pouring in. The miraculous, providential and rapid leading of God in this event has taken everyone by surprise.
"… and all the people rejoiced that God had prepared the people, since the events took place so suddenly" (2 Chr 29:36).
Naturally this exciting news has also raised many questions.
In response, Amazing Facts and 3ABN are working to provide a series of answers to many of the most common questions.
Because of the colossal, dynamic nature of this partnership, many organizational details still remain to be addressed. So we do not have all the answers at this point in time. Please continue checking the website for fresh updates and information as this incredible development unfolds.
Thank you again for your words of support and encouragement and please continue to pray that God will mightily bless this united effort to proclaim the good news!
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=192484

Yes, in hindsight it probably would have been wise for all sides to wait and see how things developed before launching into dialogue and debate, but that is not what happened. The very manner in which the merger was announced made that route pretty much of an impossibility.

[Rosyroi]

Y'all are killin us here Tryin to reinvent the wheel and say "I" did it.

The "let's ignore the rude ones" was suggested months ago. And we've been doing quite well at it.

Thank you for the laughter in your post to me.



Edited for content.......................Life is too short.



Rosyroi

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Apr 23 2007, 01:09 AM

[Aletheia]

It is very difficult for anyone to verify the real reasons for this merger.

Especially when the explanations of those involved in the merger, are discounted and ignored, and the theories, surmisings, and opinions of people who are not involved, and do not know, are given more weight and validity, and used to discount them.

Which is why your friends surmisings are worthless. Why bother to post what even you admit is unsubstantiated, Johann? I can only see a desire to constantly malign and vilify.

Where did Christ ever do such a work as this?

Just now a friend called and voiced yet another unsubstantiated opinion, which reminds me that BSDA is not a court, but a place where we voice our opinions.[

This friend feels that with the new lawyer appearing on the scene Danny fears that the question of Linda's future role in connection with 3ABN could be one of the reasons this proposed merge with Amazing Facts was propelled just now. Why? Because if it is revealed that Linda was wrongfully dismissed in 2004, that destroys Danny's credibility and he looses the face he so desperately tries to exhibit on every program, magazine and web page associated with 3ABN. This is why we see the desperate fight his supporters are still fighting on the Christian Forum or wherever their presence is still allowed. May God have mercy!

Let's pray His will be revealed, and His name glorified, and not a mere political image of . . . !!!

[Panama_Pete]

Why bother to post what even you admit is unsubstantiated, Johann? I can only see a desire to constantly malign and vilify.

Where did Christ ever do such a work as this?

Dear Aletheia,

Johann Thorvaldsson served faithfully as a Seventh-day Adventist pastor for more than 50 years. He came to 3ABN as the European Marketing director with impressive credentials. He was, and is, well-regarded in his homeland. Frankly, he was the best person for the 3ABN marketing job.

Therefore, I really can't agree with you on your comments about the constant maligning and vilifying. I really don't think you're going to be able to make your labels stick to Johann, Aletheia, so you might as well refrain from attempting to do so; You're just wasting your time, even if you think you're talking past the posters here, to some unseen lurkers beyond.

Pete

[Johann]

Especially when the explanations of those involved in the merger, are discounted and ignored, and the theories, surmisings, and opinions of people who are not involved, and do not know, are given more weight and validity, and used to discount them.

Which is why your friends surmisings are worthless. Why bother to post what even you admit is unsubstantiated, Johann? I can only see a desire to constantly malign and vilify.

Where did Christ ever do such a work as this?

Jesus Christ warned those He knew were not doing the right thing, and he always spoke in unsubstantiated parables. His listeners could take them or leave them.

Even then they said it was difficult to understand. . .