Gailon Joy Files For Bankruptcy, CREDIBLE? HONEST? FINANCIAL COUNSELOR? Options

[Seraphim7]

AppleTree, AppleTree.

How come all you did was talk about Linda? What about Danny's covering up of the child molestation allegations? What about Danny's getting a house for $6,139 and selling it a week later for $135,000? What about Danny's trying to convince Linda to violate IRS regulations?

Why are you so fixated on the whole divorce question?

More importantly, how do you explain Danny's admission a month after the divorce that he didn't know whether Linda had committed fornication? If you have no explanation, all we can conclude is that Danny divorced Linda without biblical grounds, a direct, blatant, unequivocal violation of the teachings of Jesus.

More importantly still, how do you explain the difference between Danny's response and the Lord's anointed's response when Nathan came to have a talk with him one day?

Is Danny like David? Or is he like Asa? "Then Asa was wroth with the seer, and put him in a prison house; for he was in a rage with him because of this thing. And Asa oppressed some of the people the same time" (2 Chr. 16:10).

Verses that speak of false balances and deceit also come to mind unfortunately. Sad

[Pickle]

3. There are signed statements by more than 98% of the employees?!!! Was that a requirement to stay employed at the time or did the employees volunteer these public statements? Are these a part of the law suit discovery material?

...

1. You sure there is no definitive proof of anything held by the other side? I've seen some pretty compelling evidence that seems rather solid, IMO. Tommy Shelton's emailed confession is very definitive in what it proves.

3. Wish they'd send me some auto-discovery materials. We've turned over a lot to them, but haven't gotten a thing from them yet. Not sure what the problem is that they're having.

1. If you thought that email was compelling, you ought to see the 1998 letter by Tommy to Duane in which he admits to causing a lot of pain to many people. Now that sort of wording sounds like more than the average pastor's average blunders, doesn't it? And unlike the email, the letter is signed.

And Tommy even refers to Glenn Dryden in the letter in a way that you'd be hard pressed to think that there was any animosity or jealousy between those two men at all.

[Noahswife]

Can you identify your "friend", PeacefulBe?
***************************************************

Artiste

And this added to the discussion in what way? Why does it even matter who provided her with the information?

Rather than posting a response that seems like an ad hominen attack of PB for posting something that clearly raises a legitimate question when one considers the timing of Mr. Joy's financial problems and the information we have been given as to their cause, it would have been far better IMO for you to check with Mr. Joy and been able to post a clear response from him today that his business was not one that was affected by this action of the MA Attorney General. Even if it was, it does not mean he himself was doing wrong. However, for me it would suggest other questions.

In the past Aletheia has been reminded that some of her posts would have been better sent as PMs to the original poster. I think your post falls in the same category.

nw

[Pickle]

Actually, NW, I would have thought the responsible and Christian thing would have been for either PB or her friend to have done that, if the intended insinuation was that Mr. Joy's account was possibly inaccurate. Was there any logical basis for assuming that it might have been?

I have a personal friend who was helped out of foreclosure by Mr. Joy. There was no transfer scheme. And I don't think there was a penny of profit to Mr. Joy either.

[Observer]

A friend found this article this morning and sent me the link. After reading it myself, decided it would be of interest to post it here to help give a larger picture of the mortgage crisis in Massachusetts.

PeacefulBe
---------------------------------

Press release from the Office of the Attorney General, Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

MARTHA COAKLEY
ATTORNEY GENERAL (617) 727-2200
www.mass.gov/ago

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
September 04, 2007 MEDIA CONTACT:
Amie Breton
(617) 727-2543

ATTORNEY GENERAL MARTHA COAKLEY PERMENANTLY BANS FORECLOSURE RESCUE TRANSACTIONS
BOSTON – Attorney General Martha Coakley has filed a regulation with the Secretary of State’s Office that permanently bans for-profit foreclosure rescue transactions in the Commonwealth. The Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act authorizes the Attorney General to promulgate regulations to identify unfair or deceptive conduct that violates the act. The new regulation prohibits predatory, for-profit foreclosure rescue transactions. Foreclosure rescue transactions between family members or arranged by a non-profit community or housing organization are not banned under this regulation. The new regulation also makes it an unfair or deceptive act to market foreclosure-related services without a precise description of how the promoter will assist persons in avoiding or delaying foreclosure. The regulations define a “Foreclosure Rescue Transaction” as a transaction designed to avoid foreclosure and where the homeowner transferring the property maintains an option to reacquire the home by maintaining a legal interest in the home.

“Our office is pleased that this regulation is now permanent,” said Attorney General Martha Coakley. “We are one step closer to ensuring that distressed homeowners are protected from unscrupulous business practices.”

On June 1st, Attorney General Coakley announced emergency regulations that placed a temporary ban on these types of unfair and deceptive foreclosure rescue schemes as part of her multi-faceted plan to address the foreclosure rescue crisis in Massachusetts. The regulations went into effect immediately and were valid for 90-days. After a public hearing held on Thursday, August 30, in Boston, the regulations were promulgated as final.

Foreclosure rescue schemes are typically initiated when businesses or professionals claim to assist consumers who are facing foreclosure by convincing them to convey their property to straw purchasers. The straw purchasers then obtain mortgage loans, permitting the individuals facing foreclosure to continue living in their property for a limited time, and promising the individuals that they will be able to later reacquire their homes. In the enforcement matters litigated by the Attorney General, the promises of maintaining home ownership are illusory and homeowners lose their home to the so-called “rescuer.”

In addition, Attorney General Coakley announced earlier this month regulations to address unfair and deceptive tactics used in the mortgage industry. Hearings will be held across the state on the proposed regulations during September. The Attorney General’s Office anticipates that final promulgation of these regulations will occur by the end of September 2007.

I just saw this and realized what it said. So, I will comment:

You will note the that the above refers to people who under the guise of rescuing people from forclosure obtain title to their property. That is an important part. As I understand what Gailon was doing, he was helpling people to obtian new loans under favorable conditions that allowed them to keep title to their property.

Colorado, where I live is facing a forclosure crisis of the type that I believe is references above. Here people do promise to rescue people who are threatened with forclosure. Without realizing what they are doing, these (often elderly) people transfer title to the person who claims to rescue them. This person then typically charge the people a rent to live in the home that exceeds the abount that they paid when they got into trooble. When they fail to make the required rent payments, they are evicted, and the the "rescuer" now can sell, or do anything else.

GM

[Noahswife]

Actually, NW, I would have thought the responsible and Christian thing would have been for either PB or her friend to have done that, if the intended insinuation was that Mr. Joy's account was possibly inaccurate. Was there any logical basis for assuming that it might have been?

I have a personal friend who was helped out of foreclosure by Mr. Joy. There was no transfer scheme. And I don't think there was a penny of profit to Mr. Joy either.

Bob~

The information would have been posted at some point. IMO, far better that PB post it without editorial comment or the spin that we would probably have seen if a pro-DS poster had done so first.

I hate beating the proverbial dead horse but would it not have been the "Christian thing" to ask Mr. Miller before prematurely releasing his email to the public and especially if it created certain insinuations that Mr. Miller later stated were inaccurate (BTW, do you know when the email was actually made part of the official court record)? The handling of that matter created a climate where I believe Mr. Joy's account of things will continue to be questioned by many in the future. You can call them questions or you can call them insinuations depending on one's point of view I suppose.

From what I have read and heard of Mr. Joy, I did not think for one minute he was doing anything in his business with the intention of taking advantage of someone. However, also based on what I have read, Mr. Joy would support anyone's right to ask the questions and he will happily provide answers.

nw

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Sep 6 2007, 09:03 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Actually, NW, I would have thought the responsible and Christian thing would have been for either PB or her friend to have done that, if the intended insinuation was that Mr. Joy's account was possibly inaccurate. Was there any logical basis for assuming that it might have been?

I have a personal friend who was helped out of foreclosure by Mr. Joy. There was no transfer scheme. And I don't think there was a penny of profit to Mr. Joy either.

Bob,

One of the reasons I posted the AG press release was to answer those who were trying to minimize the mortgage crisis.

Earlier in this thread, Panther said:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=213679

Sorry I don't buy it Gregory! Your explanation is full of missing parts. My husband has his own business and has friends in business involving mortgage companies and what you are saying here doesn't fly. Take what you were told by GJ and ask any business man and they will tell you something "ain't right in china" with this story. There are holes everywhere!

There was no "insinuation" intended in the posting of this article. It is related to the thread and is an important part of the picture, IMO.

I didn't find the article myself so felt the opening explanation I made in my post was important.

Truth is always a good thing.

[Noahswife]

Actually, NW, I would have thought the responsible and Christian thing would have been for either PB or her friend to have done that, if the intended insinuation was that Mr. Joy's account was possibly inaccurate. Was there any logical basis for assuming that it might have been?

Bob,

I have been a member of BSDA for nearly 9 months now. I hope during that time I have developed some maturity not only as a poster on an internet forum but also in my knowldge of the issues surrounding the 3abn situation.

If I were to go back and reread my first 2-300 (maybe 3-400?) posts, I would find that I at times found it necessary to post publicly my agreement with a poster and at other times, my disagreement. There were times, I could not help but join "the gurls" for meaty bits on the couch as we watched the match in the center ring. I have posted a few, if not many, foolish things and some I would like to take back if I could. At times, I have also been guilty of speculation based on my own questions to things that are posted. A few times I apparently felt I needed to point out something I thought was foolish. Hopefully, I do a lot less of most of those things these days.

With that having been said, I feel I need to respond once more to your post. You have stated your belief that what PB did in posting the information without contacting Mr. Joy first was neither "responsible" or "Christian". First, if you believed that to be true, I think sending her a PM was the "Christian" thing to do rather than feeling the need to tell everyone on this board how you felt about her post. (Oops....failed to follow my own advice as discussed below didn't I but that is my point just in case anyone is wondering). Although it was not as direct an attack as the one made by Artiste, it still had the apperance of a personal and judgemental attack whether you intended for it to be or not. What would be the "logical" explanation for your need make this kind of statement publicly?

I get weary of both sides calling something said or done by the other side as not "Christian" behavior. I for one disagree with your opinion. Does that imply that you are then more of a "Christian" than I? Maybe to some who will read this. Is it less than responsible and "not Christian" of me to say this to you publicly rather than privately? Maybe. But that is why I get weary of how we use the term as an adjective for other's behavior. A lot less of that would go a long way with those of us that will form our own opinion on what is or is not appropriate behavior by a poster.



nw

BTW, I think I speak for more than myself when I add that Artiste should not feel obliged to write a post agreeing with your post that indirectly supported her post or defending your post in response to this post to you.......

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Sep 6 2007, 01:03 PM

[Artiste]

Artiste

And this added to the discussion in what way? Why does it even matter who provided her with the information?

Rather than posting a response that seems like an ad hominen attack of PB for posting something that clearly raises a legitimate question when one considers the timing of Mr. Joy's financial problems and the information we have been given as to their cause, it would have been far better IMO for you to check with Mr. Joy and been able to post a clear response from him today that his business was not one that was affected by this action of the MA Attorney General. Even if it was, it does not mean he himself was doing wrong. However, for me it would suggest other questions.

In the past Aletheia has been reminded that some of her posts would have been better sent as PMs to the original poster. I think your post falls in the same category.

nw

Noahswife:


*************************************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Sep 6 2007, 02:18 PM

[sonshineonme]

You just revealed your identity to many on this board. Only one person would write a post like that.

There are many reasons a person might file for bankruptcy. It doesn't mean they are a cheat or a bad money manager.

This is nothing more than a personal attack on someone who doesn't agree with you. It is one of the lowest things I've seen posted on this forum. What an un-Christian attitude.

I wrote to Gailon myself and asked him about his filing. He sent me this email today.



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Report on BSDA
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:57:35 +0000
From: gabbjoy4@comcast.net (G. Arthur Joy)
To: Sonshineonme

I did indeed file a Chapter 7 after closing and shutting down our mortgage banking and consulting business in mid August. We were very fortunate in that both leases were taken over by other entities, thereby ridding ourselves of property leases and eliminating significant operational expenses after loosing $330,000 on operations in the first half. That number includes not getting paid when several mortgage lenders closed and failed to pay our fees, a risk in the current market-place that is unprecedented since 1990, and we barely got through that one. But it is the nature of the current market. With the illiquidity of the current financial markets, we are unable to sell loans from our market niche into the current secondary market. Our market niche was Rescue Lending...that is we targeted predatory lenders and helped borrowers to find affordable and more conventionally priced financing, usually with FHA or A- FNMA or FHLMC lenders. It is heart rending to see so many left with no alternatives to get out from under the Lions Paw. Even more frustrating to realize that our only option came down to recommending bankruptcy or filing predatory lending suites so that many homeowners, duped by unscrupulous lenders, brokers, loan officers and attorneys, could get relief from high cost and high interest loans heading into foreclosure. But that is the reality of the current market and we are left helpless to give anything other than free advice in most cases. The Presidents recent proposals have been, and will be, too little and way too late for literally tens of thousands whom we have had to watch helplessly as they are wrenched from homes and community and dislocated. Sometimes the victims are hapless renters caught up in the process and evicted for nothing more than having been residing in the premises at the time of the foreclosure. Unfortunately, there is not much money in referring these victims to pro bono attoneys and giving advise to these victims, and my phone rings daily with someones latest problem needing a solution. All we can do is console and refer and provide a summary predatory lending report to the lawfirms. At least they keep the house until the market turns or markets re-open with rescue products. I have been self-employed for nearly 33 years and it is not fun thinking that we must rebuild again. But we will keep going and we will continue to find a way to help those who, believe me, are far less fortunate than ourselves. And we will do so at every opportunity. On the other hand, if the position of 3ABN President is still open, maybe I will tender my Curriculum Vitae. According to the 990s the job pays $70,000 a year. It offers benefits, including tens of thousands in Royalties from book sales and cds with collateral income from real estate deals and horse trading. Then there is the unfettered use of the American Express card and the expense advances. They can keep the new philly as I am pretty happy with the one I have been married to for the past 33 years. But I would like to get that jet back...we could offer sunday tours to raise money and do jet rallies for the supporters. And I would even report the benefits on the 3ABN 990s!!! Alas, I am sure the embezzlement conviction for 1180 bucks from a battle with a client in 1985 would eliminate me from a job requiring such high standards!!! Maybe there is a job opening for Chairman. The only known qualification is that I hear no evil, I see no evil, but I must speak evil!!! And all I have to do is parrot the president and ceo. I'll wager I can qualify for that one!!! Wonder if it pays well...or at all??? Gailon Arthur Joy AUReporter

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Sep 6 2007, 07:12 PM

[PeacefulBe]

I wrote to Gailon myself and asked him about his filing. He sent me this email today.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Report on BSDA
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:57:35 +0000
From: gabbjoy4@comcast.net (G. Arthur Joy)
To: Sonshineonme

I did indeed file a Chapter 7 after closing and shutting down our mortgage banking and consulting business in mid August. We were very fortunate in that both leases were taken over by other entities, thereby ridding ourselves of property leases and eliminating significant operational expenses after loosing $330,000 on operations in the first half. That number includes not getting paid when several mortgage lenders closed and failed to pay our fees, a risk in the current market-place that is unprecedented since 1990, and we barely got through that one. But it is the nature of the current market. With the illiquidity of the current financial markets, we are unable to sell loans from our market niche into the current secondary market. Our market niche was Rescue Lending...that is we targeted predatory lenders and helped borrowers to find affordable and more conventionally priced financing, usually with FHA or A- FNMA or FHLMC lenders. It is heart rending to see so many left with no alternatives to get out from under the Lions Paw. Even more frustrating to realize that our only option came down to recommending bankruptcy or filing predatory lending suites so that many homeowners, duped by unscrupulous lenders, brokers, loan officers and attorneys, could get relief from high cost and high interest loans heading into foreclosure. But that is the reality of the current market and we are left helpless to give anything other than free advice in most cases. The Presidents recent proposals have been, and will be, too little and way too late for literally tens of thousands whom we have had to watch helplessly as they are wrenched from homes and community and dislocated. Sometimes the victims are hapless renters caught up in the process and evicted for nothing more than having been residing in the premises at the time of the foreclosure. Unfortunately, there is not much money in referring these victims to pro bono attoneys and giving advise to these victims, and my phone rings daily with someones latest problem needing a solution. All we can do is console and refer and provide a summary predatory lending report to the lawfirms. At least they keep the house until the market turns or markets re-open with rescue products. I have been self-employed for nearly 33 years and it is not fun thinking that we must rebuild again. But we will keep going and we will continue to find a way to help those who, believe me, are far less fortunate than ourselves. And we will do so at every opportunity. On the other hand, if the position of 3ABN President is still open, maybe I will tender my Curriculum Vitae. According to the 990s the job pays $70,000 a year. It offers benefits, including tens of thousands in Royalties from book sales and cds with collateral income from real estate deals and horse trading. Then there is the unfettered use of the American Express card and the expense advances. They can keep the new philly as I am pretty happy with the one I have been married to for the past 33 years. But I would like to get that jet back...we could offer sunday tours to raise money and do jet rallies for the supporters. And I would even report the benefits on the 3ABN 990s!!! Alas, I am sure the embezzlement conviction for 1180 bucks from a battle with a client in 1985 would eliminate me from a job requiring such high standards!!! Maybe there is a job opening for Chairman. The only known qualification is that I hear no evil, I see no evil, but I must speak evil!!! And all I have to do is parrot the president and ceo. I'll wager I can qualify for that one!!! Wonder if it pays well...or at all??? Gailon Arthur Joy AUReporter

Hi SSOM,

I guess you weren't aware that Observer posted most of this email from Gailon yesterday morning. That's okay, though, because it brought the text closer to the press release by the Mass. AG.

If you read both the press release and then Gailon's email, it does raise concern, IMO. I didn't realize, when Gregory posted Gailon's email yesterday, that Gailon had himself described his market niche as "rescue lending" the very thing that the AG has just stopped. Like someone said earlier though, it is unlikely that Gailon was using the same unscrupulous scheme to give false hope to desperate homeowners only to rob these people of their homes as those were that the AG was focusing her actions on.

I trust that Gailon will be informed of the confusingly similar language he used that so closely mirrors what the AG press release discusses and will be forthright in bringing a clarification.

PeacefulBe

[panther]

It seems to me for the AG of Massachusetts to permanently ban for-profit foreclosure rescue transactions in the Commonwealth there must have been a LOT of fraud going on. Those seem to be drastic measures for an AG!

[Artiste]

...
The information would have been posted at some point. IMO, far better that PB post it without editorial comment or the spin that we would probably have seen if a pro-DS poster had done so first.
...

And PeacefulBe is not acting as a pro-DS poster?


******************************************************

[Aletheia]

And PeacefulBe is not acting as a pro-DS poster?
******************************************************

Oh for pity's sake! All she did was post a article,which seems to be relevant and pertinent to the topic here.




(run PB, run!)

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 09:35 PM

[sonshineonme]

Hi SSOM,

I guess you weren't aware that Observer posted most of this email from Gailon yesterday morning. That's okay, though, because it brought the text closer to the press release by the Mass. AG.

If you read both the press release and then Gailon's email, it does raise concern, IMO. I didn't realize, when Gregory posted Gailon's email yesterday, that Gailon had himself described his market niche as "rescue lending" the very thing that the AG has just stopped. Like someone said earlier though, it is unlikely that Gailon was using the same unscrupulous scheme to give false hope to desperate homeowners only to rob these people of their homes as those were that the AG was focusing her actions on.

I trust that Gailon will be informed of the confusingly similar language he used that so closely mirrors what the AG press release discusses and will be forthright in bringing a clarification.

PeacefulBe

Most of the years I worked in home health, there were laws being made (and government/medicare) because of all the fraud being committed in the home health business (which by the way still goes on to this day). Our agency, of course, was not committing any fruad, but when Joint Commission came in, we were treated as though we were like the worst of the worst - while the entire hospital would only get two days of Joint Commission in their halls and files, they spent 3 days in our little office, hunting for what must be fraud somewhere, because if so many were committing fraud, and laws were being made to stop this, criminal charges filed against agencies and individuals everywhere (you get the idea) along with horror stories from every state about such horrible agencies doing these terrible abuses, we must be doing it too. These abusers had ruined it for all of us that did things legally and non-fraudulant. In Home Health, you treat patients by going to their home and then bill insurance or medicare for going to people's homes and taking care of them (they found that since some were homebound and not mobile at all, or if they could not stay in the hospital like people use to, they would be send home early, get home health care and they also found that patients got better faster (in most cases) in their own home verses a hospital).These are reasons that home health came about (a need was met).

There will always be companies/business people where someone can take advantage of a situation for their own desires, they can find ways to get something MORE then they should - manipulate something that is suppose to be good for others in a way to benefit themselves reallly (does this sound familiar?), and they will ruin it for everyone. Nothing will be the same again after such types of abuses...not for anyone.

I always felt frustrated that our agency had to go through such screening, distrustful and suspicious eyes, being sure they would find something we were hiding - but they NEVER did, and that frustrated them enough to find anything to put down on that report and complain about (one year, the only thing they found was the something wrong with the carpet).