Damage Control, Emails Options

[Chez]

Perhaps we should not get diverted into quarrels and stay on task here.

You are right. I wouldn't want anyone to say that we were negligent in protecting our children along with standing for truth even in the face of adversity. Read this latest piece of news: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/08/fol...hics/index.html. I don't want God to say that we didn't do our best to protect our people from predators.

[Aletheia]

It's not pinned. With your help though I located the letter I was looking for.

Danny And Walt's E-mails To Me--september , post #2
So I have sent some e-mails, with questions, and I'll let you all know what I find out, IF anything.

~ Aletheia

What happened to the letter to september from Walt Thompson, I gave the link to???

It's gone. Did any of you read it? I sent it by e-mail to others but the fact that it is gone from this forum is not good. Why?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Dec 8 2006, 05:31 PM

[PeacefulBe]

What happened to the letter to september from Walt Thompson, I gave the link to???

It's gone. Did any of you read it? I sent it by e-mail to others but the fact that it is gone from this forum is not good. Why?

Cindy,
Take a deep breath or two and relax. The link still works just fine.

[Aletheia]

Cindy,
Take a deep breath or two and relax. The link still works just fine.

Thanks, but I'm ok. You are right, the link does work,, it just doesn't go to the copy of the e-mail I'm talking about, anymore??? Possibly I'm an idiot...

But thank God, I made a copy of the e-mail (from Walt Thompson to to September as it was was posted by her), so I could e-mail it out with my questions to Thompson and others.

Because of that I had a copy and paste of both this forum and the letter, so I could repost it here with a request for it to be pinned.

You can find it on the "Topics And Letters To Be Pinned?, Submitted documentation and letters from all involved" thread:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...pid=162664&

added 12/09/06 or here also:http://www.blacksda .com/forums/ index.php? showtopic= 10845&st= 0



I also sent a personal message to September, as I am sure she has the original.

Air is good. :-) Our God is awesome!

Sabbath blessings to you an yours.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Dec 9 2006, 11:37 AM

[sister]

The following was posted on Maritime by Bob.

This was the appeal I sent to Danny Wednesday night.

I wish I could say that the reply I got back was not defiant. That reply will not be posted at this time.

Bob

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Truce?
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:41:51 -0600
To: Danny Shelton

Hi Danny.

This is more of a pastoral letter than anything else.

You know, before I sent that last email, I was really beginning to feel bad for you. It looks like such an impossible situation, with no good solutions, like a bad dream. I would not want to be in your shoes just now.

I've been in bad situations before (nothing like this, though), and it sure wasn't fun. It can be so devastating. And I truly do feel bad for you.

What do you think would bring the most glory to God, and be truly the best for 3ABN? Would it not be to step aside after doing what you can to facilitate the immediate implementation of some of the structural reforms Gailon has had in mind, where there are proper checks and balances to prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again?

I just thought I would try to reach out to you before, well, before whatever happens next.

Did you have opportunity to read that story from the SOP I attached to the end of my last letter? What did you think of that? I honestly could not read it without breaking down and crying. Praise God for His mercy, power, and grace!

Long ago I had a sermon entitled, "Mercy for Manasseh." Too many people think they have sinned too much to be pardoned, forgiven, cleansed, and saved. Well, Manasseh was a preacher's kid of sorts, offered his own kids up as sacrifices, sawed Isaiah in half, and filled Jerusalem with blood, and the Bible even says that God sent Judah into captivity because God couldn't forgive Manasseh's sins.

Yet in spite of all that, when Manasseh was in a dungeon in Babylon, he turned to God and prayed, and God forgave him personally even though He could not forgive the nation as a whole for those sins, and Manasseh was restored to his throne.

Then he immediately went about trying to undo all the damage he had done. Of course he couldn't succeed in that entirely, but he tried, and that's all that God is looking for.

Now if God could pardon Manasseh, he most certainly can pardon you and me. Praise His name!

Do you believe that? That's the first and biggest step, to believe. Would you take that step just now?

Bob

[fallible humanbe...]

Has anyone noticed that when Fallible Human Being is silent, someone new comes in with the same approach...

"sister"

As tough as it must be to believe there just might be more than one person out there who doesn't buy the "believe us at the cost of your soul" approach.

There are many who are reading here who are waiting for some sort of support to your claims, who will bide there time until there is evidence, or will simply walk away because of the cloakroom secrecy. Contrary to Bob P. comments I am not an apologist, I am a skeptic who continues to wait and see. What I have seen so far doesn't mesh well with the limited facts that have been made available by both sides. I realize there have been many reasons given for why substantiated support has not been provided - but the time has come for more than just the endless recital of he said/she said.

I realize both sides have been admonished by ASI to draw a curtain around the process and say nothing at this point, but if the accusations are going to continue to fly without support from Linda's camp (and this, as well as Maritime is the safe respite her cadre has found to do so) then it seems as if you are making a mockery of your position. If the ASI process is to work, and they have indicated that a moritorium on accusations and defense is necessary then it seems as if BSDA and Maritime would fall silent - that is if Linda and her camp are invested in and have accepted the process.

And lest there be any wondering I have been silently reading not creating alternate egos to raise necessary questions. And if that isn't clear enough, I don't know who Altheia (sp?) is, though I envy the fact she is enjoying a wonderful snowfall now and again.

- fhb

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Dec 8 2006, 11:55 PM

[PeacefulBe]

"sister"

As tough as it must be to believe there just might be more than one person out there who doesn't buy the "believe us at the cost of your soul" approach.

There are many who are reading here who are waiting for some sort of support to your claims, who will bide there time until there is evidence, or will simply walk away because of the cloakroom secrecy. Contrary to Bob P. comments I am not an apologist, I am a skeptic who continues to wait and see. What I have seen so far doesn't mesh well with the limited facts that have been made available by both sides. I realize there have been many reasons given for why substantiated support has not been provided - but the time has come for more than just the endless recital of he said/she said.

Could you cite examples where the limited facts that have been made available by both sides don't mesh well? From my read of this thread some very large holes have been poked in the email from Dr. Thompson stating the 3abn version of the date of occurence and the number of alleged victims of alleged predator Tommy Shelton. How is this merely he said/she said? Dr. Thompson said, Danny said, Bob said, Pastor Dryden said, Roger Clem said.

What would you consider "some sort of support to your claims"?

I realize both sides have been admonished by ASI to draw a curtain around the process and say nothing at this point, but if the accusations are going to continue to fly without support from Linda's camp (and this, as well as Maritime is the safe respite her cadre has found to do so) then it seems as if you are making a mockery of your position. If the ASI process is to work, and they have indicated that a moritorium on accusations and defense is necessary then it seems as if BSDA and Maritime would fall silent - that is if Linda and her camp are invested in and have accepted the process.

Where has it been written that ASI has admonished a curtain to be drawn around the process? I know that Danny has been advised not to say anything. But, at this point I don't think anyone even knows what issues are going to be addressed by ASI.

The discussions in this thread will, hopefully, result in this issue being made public to the point that:
1. If the allegations are true the secrecy cycle can finally be broken, other young men will be protected and past victims will be given the assistance they need to heal as much as possible.
2. If the allegations are false Tommy Shelton can once and for all be vindicated and move on with his life.

Perhaps you could list for me what posts here have taken the form of accusations - other than the obvious one accusing Alethia of being your alter ego - sigh.

And lest there be any wondering I have been silently reading not creating alternate egos to raise necessary questions. And if that isn't clear enough, I don't know who Altheia (sp?) is, though I envy the fact she is enjoying a wonderful snowfall now and again.

- fhb

[Pickle]

"sister"

As tough as it must be to believe there just might be more than one person out there who doesn't buy the "believe us at the cost of your soul" approach.

There are many who are reading here who are waiting for some sort of support to your claims, who will bide there time until there is evidence, or will simply walk away because of the cloakroom secrecy. Contrary to Bob P. comments I am not an apologist, I am a skeptic who continues to wait and see.

Dr. Thompson said in writing that Danny had essentially lied to him. Danny has had 10 days now to explain the discrepancies, and he has declined to do so.

Walt said that Danny said that the allegations were 30 years old, when the 2003 letter Walt got at that same time indicates that new allegations had been made for misconduct that occurred during the time period 1995-2000. This isn't he said/she said at all. It's black and white, concrete, and crystal clear.

Couple that with Roger Clem's testimony that he had come forward in early 2003 and other things, and we have a case that we could prove in court that Danny told Walt an extensive fabriaction regarding the serious nature, wide extent, and recent timing of the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations.

I realize both sides have been admonished by ASI to draw a curtain around the process and say nothing at this point, but if the accusations are going to continue to fly without support from Linda's camp ....

1) I am less in "Linda's camp" than you are in Danny's camp. In other words, if you aren't in Danny's camp, I definitely am not in Linda's camp.

2) Please state the source of your information regarding there being a curtain around the process. If there really is a curtain, then how would you know that there is a curtain? Who's leaking that information to you?

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 9 2006, 07:18 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

2) Please state the source of your information regarding there being a curtain around the process. If there really is a curtain, then how would you know that there is a curtain? Who's leaking that information to you?

It is obvious that 3ABN has entered into the process that ASI is going to undertake. Both Dr. Thompson and Mr. D. Shelton have indicated that they were told not speak any further about the issues until they were speaking before the council. This is evolving into a quasi-legal event and it is only logical that if ASI told one side to remain quiet until the process was complete, then it told the other side the same thing.

Here is a question to Greg Matthews, Gailon Joy, Bob *******, sister, or another individual inside Linda's ranks, "Has Linda agreed to submit (just as 3ABN has had to do) the ASI process and if so, has she (and there by her camp) too been counseled not to discuss any potential issues?"

Answering said question isn't giving away any valuable information but would indicate that, as Greg M. pointed out a few weeks ago, there may be -finally-some resolution.

So my source is common sense about a fairly held and effectively planned hearing process.

- fhb

[Aletheia]

It is obvious that 3ABN has entered into the process that ASI is going to undertake. Both Dr. Thompson and Mr. D. Shelton have indicated that they were told not speak any further about the issues until they were speaking before the council. This is evolving into a quasi-legal event and it is only logical that if ASI told one side to remain quiet until the process was complete, then it told the other side the same thing.

That seems reasonable to me. ASI is not representing either side, just investigating, right?

"Has Linda agreed to submit (just as 3ABN has had to do) the ASI process and if so, has she (and there by her camp) too been counseled not to discuss any potential issues?"

Good question.

"Answering said question isn't giving away any valuable information but would indicate that, as Greg M. pointed out a few weeks ago, there may be -finally-some resolution."


I would think all agree, that a resolution would be an answer to prayer, and help end all this division and strife which certainly doesn't look good to those outside the SDA Church, nor actually to many of us within it.


BTW: Thanks for explaining about me not being your sock-puppet. I've been posting in Adventist forums and Newsgroups for years with the login name "Aletheia"

~ Cindy

[Clay]

That seems reasonable to me. ASI is not representing either side, just investigating, right?

"Has Linda agreed to submit (just as 3ABN has had to do) the ASI process and if so, has she (and there by her camp) too been counseled not to discuss any potential issues?"

Good question.

"Answering said question isn't giving away any valuable information but would indicate that, as Greg M. pointed out a few weeks ago, there may be -finally-some resolution."
I would think all agree, that a resolution would be an answer to prayer, and help end all this division and strife which certainly doesn't look good to those outside the SDA Church, nor actually to many of us within it.
BTW: Thanks for explaining about me not being your sock-puppet. I've been posting in Adventist forums and Newsgroups for years with the login name "Aletheia"

~ Cindy

there is no division.... there is a man who has done some questionable things, and chooses to run his business as he wishes... then there are those who are trying to tell that man how to run his business...

My only beef with Shelton was the manner in which he divorced Linda and then trashed her reputation afterwards making it hard for her to support herself..... as for what is happening to him now, its his wagon he gotta pull it, but as my grandfather use to say, God don't like ugly.... and to be sure much of what Shelton has done is ugly... IMO.....

[Aletheia]

there is no division.... there is a man who has done some questionable things, and chooses to run his business as he wishes... then there are those who are trying to tell that man how to run his business...

My only beef with Shelton was the manner in which he divorced Linda and then trashed her reputation afterwards making it hard for her to support herself..... as for what is happening to him now, its his wagon he gotta pull it, but as my grandfather use to say, God don't like ugly.... and to be sure much of what Shelton has done is ugly... IMO.....

I was actually referring to the unresolved difference between Linda and Danny and the groups which have rallied behind one or the other. Quite Obviously when both hold such differnt positions, and are claiming opposing things, then they aren't United or in unity.

I am trying my best to stay unbiased until I know more, as far as I can tell there's questionable things on both sides, and unanswered questions on both sides.

The only thing I'll say for sure, is I don't like it when people are put on a pedestal, and other's start giving glory to a man rather then God. I've thought that was ugly for a long time now.

It's not good for those who do so, and it's certainly not good for the one being lifted up. Men get big heads and lose that humbleness quite often when given that temptation.

Course I've been knocked off my high horse like Saul/Paul too many times to count. Actually I asked Jesus to do so, cause he and I both know sometimes that's the only way my hardheaded self
can notice what he's saying.

Have a blessed Sabbath,
Cindy

[Clay]

I was actually referring to the unresolved difference between Linda and Danny and the groups which have rallied behind one or the other. Quite Obviously when both hold such differnt positions, and are claiming opposing things, then they aren't United or in unity.

I am trying my best to stay unbiased until I know more, as far as I can tell there's questionable things on both sides, and unanswered questions on both sides.

The only thing I'll say for sure, is I don't like it when people are put on a pedestal, and other's start giving glory to a man rather then God. I've thought that was ugly for a long time now.

It's not good for those who do so, and it's certainly not good for the one being lifted up. Men get big heads and lose that humbleness quite often when given that temptation.

Course I've been knocked off my high horse like Saul/Paul too many times to count. Actually I asked Jesus to do so, cause he and I both know sometimes that's the only way my hardheaded self
can notice what he's saying.

Have a blessed Sabbath,
Cindy

Unquestionable things on both sides? I disagree... when the divorce action was initiated what had Linda done.... or better yet look at it this way, even IF she had done every thing she was accused of doing, as a christian man Danny Shelton should NOT have responded as he did..... period... so to me he was wrong from the beginning for not taking the christian high road.... the only thing this other info has shown is that maybe Danny has no idea where the christian high road is..... or if he does he choses not to take it.....

[fallible humanbe...]

That seems reasonable to me. ASI is not representing either side, just investigating, right?

Yes, they are the ones hearing the evidence. Here are the comments from both Mr. D. Shelton and Dr. Thompson from earlier in this thread:

_

Subject: Re: Gailons last email to me. "We got a problem"
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:40:21 -0600
To: Bob *******
From: Danny Shelton

I will refrain from answering your questions at this time. I'm willing for ASI to do it's work with the facts presented by both sides.

Danny
_

Subject: Re: Gailons last email to me. "We got a problem"
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:57:01 -0600
To: Bob ******
From: Danny Shelton

Bob, Please understand that we are letting ASI deal with this first. Whatever is left we will look at later.
ASI has asked us not to discuss this situation in detail with anyone at this time. We are respecting that request.
Hopefully you will understand, if not I'm sorry, but you'll just have to wait until ASI makes a decision.

No need to respond

Danny
_

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Gailons last email to me. "We got a problem"]
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:30:48 -0600
To: Bob *******
From: Walt Thompson

Hi Bob,

ASI has advised us to discontinue communication with our accusers while they are working. I will wait for the process to occur before commenting futher.

Walter Thompson MD
_


So, if one believes that this process is formal (and there is every reason to do so), then it is simple logic that both sides have been given the same set of expectations. If 3ABN has been told not to talk during the process - which would be necessary for the highest level of integrity possible - then I have not a doubt that Linda and her camp have been directed the same way. I believe the individuals from ASI are working as hard as is humanly possible to insure the highest level of professionalism in this process.

One can read the material here and come to very logical conclusions that do not support the rancor or some of the accusations.

Enjoy your Sabbath experience!

- fhb

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Dec 9 2006, 11:06 AM

[no_cults]

If many teenagers feel like a pimple on the face is flashing their abnormality in neon, can you imagine how hard it would be for them to make public that they fell for the wiles of a predator?

Then weigh also how the crafty predator can misdirect adults with his superior sophistication and the implied sanctity of his position and easily get them to take his side over the testimony of immature adolecents.

In my own experiences:
1. At 4 I tried to tell my parents that a family member was doing things to me that scared and hurt me but they couldn't or wouldn't understand. So the abuse kept happening for 5 more years. It became "normal" to me and I didn't question if it was wrong until decades later. When I tried to address it in my 30's I was shocked by the denial that was still in play.
2. At 13, when a step-grandfather assaulted me I had a stronger voice and my parents believed me but the rest of the family got angry and called me a liar. That all changed when he nearly killed my grandmother then fled the country. The police told her that he was a wanted serial child molester that had victimized many children.
3. At 17, on a church youth campout when a married youth pastor isolated me in a beautiful valley, hugged and kissed me like he was my date I was embarrassed, scared and never said a word because I knew no one would believe me.

Perhaps these experiences can help some of you understand why these things sometimes go unreported. In recent years the victims are more likely to be listened to and believed but it is still an uphill battle especially where the predator is "a man of God" sometimes with a dauntingly large institution standing behind him.

I believe you.

In my own experience, I have now come to believe that my sisters
(13 mo younger) were molested by our stepfather. To this day,
they have not really dealt with it and I have not encouraged them
to talk about it. I know it is very painful for them. I have read
that THE most painful part of something like this is that the VICTIM
will think that people will blame them and they have an overwhelming
sense of guilt. A child 5 on up to even later teens does not question
an adult that much. They trust them. Even in my own situation, I
(at the time) did not see anything wrong with my 12-13 yr. old sister
getting into bed with our stepfather at 5 am when our mother went
to work. I clearly see this now as not normal, but at the time you
really don't.

Once again. I do believe you.