New Letters At Save3abn Options

[daylily]

Observer, you make everything so clear, I just don't understand why they can't see the unfairness of the whole process.

[Fran]

I disagree with you take on this. To support my position, I will quote a letter that Alethea posted earlier. As she posted it, I assume that it is a valid e-mail.

I am going to insert my comments into the following quotation. I will identify them by placing a "GM:" before my inserted comments. In addition, I will place my initials at the end of my comment.

In the interests of fairness, I will comment as I see it. That is to say that some of my comments will be positive, and some will be negative.
GM: Folks, only 24 hours to consider! Unbelievable! They were not giving her an appropriate amount of time to consider and seek advice. They were not giving her an appropriate amount of time to pray about it and to seek God's guidance. They required her to make a hasty decision, on the spur of the moment. Unbelievable in it's lack of fairness--GM.
I wonder what would have happened if Linda had requested to be heard by the entire Boa

Greg;

I have to give you 100% as a grad for your post. In fact, it really should receive a 5 ***** Star rating.

I share you thoughts completely!

Maranatha

Now I must close out by saying that the above is my opinion and only my opinion. This is my Q-CY/M-A/P-L Statement. (Quick, Cover Your/My A--/Posterior Legally.)

[PeacefulBe]

Bystander,
While I was growing up, one of my favorite comediennes was Phyllis Diller. As I read Bystander's post below my own, her laugh echoed in my ears!

At 5:58 am on March 8th, Aletheia posted:
This is the quote by Aletheia that I was responding to. When she says that Linda didn't reply per WT one must wonder when it was that she went to Kansas to meet with the non-SDA counselors. Was this in May or June? Did the committee go directly to the board on May 30th since Linda didn't reply? That would be interesting to know but I'm not willing to speculate if "maybe, that gave them a clue, to proceed and take it to the full board". I'll do some searching and see if I can find the answer from first-hand information.

Bystander posted March 8th at 1:31pm:

PB this is the first time of have seen an admission by Linda or your side that she & DS went to professional counselors. That has been denied on this board over and over again. Our side has been called liars by saying she did. If I had time I would go back to your previous posts to see if you were on that wagon train of "poor Linda DS lied about going to counselors." Either way, it is of the utmost importance that you have admitted it now since that has been one thing on this board that has been argued to the point of being ridiculous.

(Cue Phyllis Diller laugh)
It must be a lean newsday if a post from me about LS and DS going to counseling in Kansas is to be considered Breaking News! This reaction on your part took me aback as I have tried quite carefully to pay attention to details on this forum. You make some pretty shakey claims in your statement. First of all, my post doesn't come as an admission by Linda or "your side". I don't know Linda personally. I personally have a friend who knows Linda personally but I have never personally spoken to or been emailed by Linda. And furthermore, my own personal friend who knows Linda personally has never mentioned to me anything about counseling that LS and DS went to in Kansas so there is no possible way for you to tag my comment as an admission by Linda.
While a great-grandfather of mine did come out West from St. Louis by wagon train, I have never ridden on one real or hypothetical. But, since you piqued my curiosity as to this whole matter, I did a simple search and these are just part of the posts that deal with the subject of Linda and Danny going to Kansas for "counseling":
sonshineonme discusses Kansas:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry138813
Panama_Pete discusses Kansas:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry165855
Johann discusses Kansas:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry165898
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry176406

So, all of the above links clearly show that there has been no denial of the fact that LS and DS went to Kansas to meet with non-SDA counselors. I just don't see where you get the details from your post about you being called liars for saying that she did. Perhaps you need to get your facts straight before publishing your Breaking News item?

So, what do you know? They did go to professional non SDA counselors. Non SDA so there wouldn't be any bias involved, I'm sure. This way the counselors would most likely, not be aware of who DS or LS were as far as TV and the Adventist world go. PB, you stated Kansas. I didn't even know what state it was when.....mmm wonder who your "first hand" information is? And, if you have access to that kind of first hand info, what's with the story you have given all along that you came here neutral and searching for truth. If you have access to "first hand info" from your side, doesn't sound like you were so neutral after all.

This post has been edited by Bystander: Today, 01:32 PM

Well, dear Bystander, I would have to ask you why you didn't know that the state was Kansas? Did your sources forget to give you that info? Did you not read the very posts you invoked in your first few sentences of your post,"since that has been one thing on this board that has been argued to the point of being ridiculous"?
Who is my "first hand" information? Many of the members of this forum, you included.
(Cue Phyllis Diller to stop the laughing)
You are right about one thing though. I wasn't really neutral when I came here. I loved the ministry of 3abn and really thought I could do my part to disprove the claims that my friend who personally knows Linda was making. When I came here the truth was I pretty much felt that Linda had probably strayed and that Danny was probably telling the truth about the matter. But I came here, willing to give other folks the chance to tell their testimonies and willing to find the truth of the matter.
So now, Bystander, I am still filled with the Peace that passes understanding. As for the bewildered part of my username, I am bewildered that those who claim to be representing God's character to the whole world have shown themselves, time and again, to be less than truthful and of such unChristianlike behavior as to actually try to cover up horrific abuse and try to intimidate precious souls into silence who have been abused by one of their own.

[Aletheia]

In the mean time, these are a few conclusions that I drew from the emails and from information in Aletheia's posts:

1. It was the committee Linda was to respond to.
2. I do not find anything anywhere that shows that the board asked Linda to come to the board meeting at the end of campmeeting.
3. Perhaps the board met for the usual things that the board met for on a quarterly basis?

And this is still ridiculous PB:"Perhaps the board met for the usual things that the board met for on a quarterly basis?"

Only if the usual thing the board met for on a quarterly basis, was to fire Linda...

If what you say is true, Then why did Johann and the Doctor fly there to allegedly talk to the board, and why did they compose a letter and send it to the board for the meeting, rather then going in person????

You really aren't this bewildered are you?

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 8 2007, 03:46 PM

[Fran]

These several emails that have been published completely exonerate DS and WT of any wrong doing, unfairness or anything else they have been accused of. All they do is point out that DS clearly loved his wife and was upset and hurt, but still trying to follow the course of Matt 18. Walt T. could not have shown any more of a kind, christian, and sensative nature to all concerned. His emails speak with love for Linda and he always addresses both the Doc and Johann in a respectful way. The way he handled his part of this terrible situation, strengthens my feelings of respect for him as a true christian and a man of integrity. Can we say the same for them in their responses?
After reading through, I don't know how anyone could come to any conclusion other than, LS had her opportunity time and again to make things right both at 3abn and her marriage, and she chose not to. Both Doc and Johann were given opportunities (at the right time and place) and at least the Doc didn't take it. Johann would have addressed the board also and he didn't.
All were dealt with in a Christ like spirit as far as possible but finally enough is enough and even then, they were dealt with fairly.
In one of DS emails to the Doc he says Linda is young beautiful and intelligent.......Yes that sounds like someone who never bragged on her and built her up and didn't love her.....Right
These emails are very simple & forthright as to what happened and those of you that want to find wrong in them, just want to find it and want to argue.

Bystander,

I read your post, and instantly became sick to my stomach! I hope I don't have to ...

Oops, excuse me while I ...

Now I must close out by saying that the above is my opinion and only my opinion. This is my Q-CY/M-A/P-L Statement. (Quick, Cover Your/My A--/Posterior Legally.)

[Bystander]

Bystander... you are skipping around two questions... here they are again....

PROVE that Linda committed adultery.... show us the evidence.... don't spin, don't distract, prove that Linda committed adultery....

If you are unwilling to do that, then explain why you and others like you stood by while Linda was thrown under the bus..... even if she did everything she was accused of, she should not have been treated as she was..... so explain one or the other.....
and when your tag-team partner tags in this evening.... tell him to start with those two simple questions.....

What Don't You Understand? It is the responsibility of 3abn ONLY to make known that evidence. And When They Do, It will not be on a CHAT room. How hard is that for any of you to understand? There are Legalities involved. Unlike Joy or Pickle, the reality is, I nor anyone else, can just step up and take over. No one but 3abn can make the evidence known, to whom they want and when they want. So everytime you and the lindanites go through the same tired spill demanding evidence, you are blowing smoke and wasting breath because this has been explained to you over and over. We can't help it if it doesn't soak in.

[Clay]

What Don't You Understand? It is the responsibility of 3abn ONLY to make known that evidence. And When They Do, It will not be on a CHAT room. How hard is that for any of you to understand? There are Legalities involved. Unlike Joy or Pickle, the reality is, I nor anyone else, can just step up and take over. No one but 3abn can make the evidence known, to whom they want and when they want. So everytime you and the lindanites go through the same tired spill demanding evidence, you are blowing smoke and wasting breath because this has been explained to you over and over. We can't help it if it doesn't soak in.

two questions Bystander.... can YOU prove that Linda committed adultery? Why did you allow a human being be thrown under the bus as she was? Have you answered those two questions yet?

If you cannot answer the first question why are you here defending danny?

[Bystander]

two questions Bystander.... can YOU prove that Linda committed adultery? Why did you allow a human being be thrown under the bus as she was? Have you answered those two questions yet?

If you cannot answer the first question why are you here defending danny?

The only reason that I can see for directly ignoring my post, is that you think I am DS. Get over it. You are not addressing DS. Can I prove anything. No. Again, 3abn can. I don't have the right. And because I know that they can, there was no "bus accident." End of Story.
I have answered questions to the best of my ability, What have you done?
Can You prove her innocence?
Can you prove what was said to each other in their own home?
Can you prove that all the phone bills, gifts, and other evidence were lies?
Can you prove that she wasn't given every chance to restore her marriage and her job?
Can you tell me ANYTHING at all that you DIDN'T read and draw conclusions from, on this forum?
Can you tell me that you witnessed ANY of the events that have been discussed?
Can you tell me that you have talked directly with ANY of the people involved?
If not, you have unbelievable audacity to DEMAND anything from the 3abn defenders. Same goes for the rest of you that answer no to these questions.

[PeacefulBe]

What Don't You Understand? It is the responsibility of 3abn ONLY to make known that evidence. And When They Do, It will not be on a CHAT room. How hard is that for any of you to understand? There are Legalities involved. Unlike Joy or Pickle, the reality is, I nor anyone else, can just step up and take over. No one but 3abn can make the evidence known, to whom they want and when they want. So everytime you and the lindanites go through the same tired spill demanding evidence, you are blowing smoke and wasting breath because this has been explained to you over and over. We can't help it if it doesn't soak in.

I'm certain you would characterize your job here, and the jobs of wwjd, Lee and Aletheia, to be to provide support for Danny's side of all of these issues. Am I correct? If I am, wouldn't it be a good place to show all of the lurkers, members, and those seeking truth in the matter what that "evidence" is so that they, those who have not chosen sides as yet, can come to the appropriate conclusion?

You must know that many folks are Googling for information since Danny has been so outspoken on the Live programs. Wouldn't it be prudent for them to get the full story instead of seeing only one side posting the evidence for their side?

Of course, if there really isn't any compelling "evidence" that could be posted to clearly show that Linda was following a sinful course, I suppose you all could just go on twisting statements, muddying the waters and attempting to divert the minds of those seeking truth. Wonder which course would be the most productive?

[princessdi]

Well then, you, cindy, Lee, wwjd, and the rest need to stop posting until said proof is produced. There is no reason for you to continue, because we will not believe you with out the proof, and you have no proof, you say, thus far. You have wasted massive amounts of our time and yours. Come back when you have something.

What Don't You Understand? It is the responsibility of 3abn ONLY to make known that evidence. And When They Do, It will not be on a CHAT room. How hard is that for any of you to understand? There are Legalities involved. Unlike Joy or Pickle, the reality is, I nor anyone else, can just step up and take over. No one but 3abn can make the evidence known, to whom they want and when they want. So everytime you and the lindanites go through the same tired spill demanding evidence, you are blowing smoke and wasting breath because this has been explained to you over and over. We can't help it if it doesn't soak in.

[Clay]

The only reason that I can see for directly ignoring my post, is that you think I am DS. Get over it. You are not addressing DS. Can I prove anything. No. Again, 3abn can. I don't have the right. And because I know that they can, there was no "bus accident." End of Story.
I have answered questions to the best of my ability, What have you done?
Can You prove her innocence?
Can you prove what was said to each other in their own home?
Can you prove that all the phone bills, gifts, and other evidence were lies?
Can you prove that she wasn't given every chance to restore her marriage and her job?
Can you tell me ANYTHING at all that you DIDN'T read and draw conclusions from, on this forum?
Can you tell me that you witnessed ANY of the events that have been discussed?
Can you tell me that you have talked directly with ANY of the people involved?
If not, you have unbelievable audacity to DEMAND anything from the 3abn defenders. Same goes for the rest of you that answer no to these questions.

so you cannot answer those two simple questions.... you cannot prove that she committed adultery, and you stood by while she was trashed and thrown under the bus.....

thank you for showing us what you are.... God help anyone who needs help from you....

[Bystander]

so you cannot answer those two simple questions.... you cannot prove that she committed adultery, and you stood by while she was trashed and thrown under the bus.....

thank you for showing us what you are.... God help anyone who needs help from you....

Have you gotten completely simple minded? I answered your questions. I am not in a position to expose the evidence. They are. And they have it. Therefore, there is no ridiculous Bus analogy.

I answered. You did not answer any of mine. I have yet to see you answer these kinds of questions. Try it, just once, just see if you can answer with plain and simple responses. No answering a question with a question, no smart remarks. Just answer the list of questions. How hard is it? they are YES and NO answers. Put on your thinking cap and just attempt it, just ONE time.....If you refuse to answer such simple questions, that says it all, and will show to all, that you are just an "extra" in the drama and are here to memorize and repeat some of the "stars" in your camp.

[Aletheia]

Have you gotten completely simple minded? I answered your questions. I am not in a position to expose the evidence. They are. And they have it. Therefore, there is no ridiculous Bus analogy.

I answered. You did not answer any of mine. I have yet to see you answer these kinds of questions. Try it, just once, just see if you can answer with plain and simple responses. No answering a question with a question, no smart remarks. Just answer the list of questions. How hard is it? they are YES and NO answers. Put on your thinking cap and just attempt it, just ONE time.....If you refuse to answer such simple questions, that says it all, and will show to all, that you are just an "extra" in the drama and are here to memorize and repeat some of the "stars" in your camp.

I have never seen him do anything but ridicule those he disagrees with, demand answers from those he insults and namecalls, and never have any of his own when it comes to theses 3ABN discussions.

BTW, if my memory serves correctly re your post to PB, it was mostly Clay, (and I think Princess DrRe) who were claiming that Linda never got professional counseling, and accusing Danny and 3ABN of lying, and demanding proof and receipts from you... PB might have been too bewildered to supply them with her links...

[awesumtenor]

The only reason that I can see for directly ignoring my post, is that you think I am DS. Get over it. You are not addressing DS. Can I prove anything. No. Again, 3abn can. I don't have the right. And because I know that they can, there was no "bus accident." End of Story.
I have answered questions to the best of my ability, What have you done?
Can You prove her innocence?
Can you prove what was said to each other in their own home?
Can you prove that all the phone bills, gifts, and other evidence were lies?
Can you prove that she wasn't given every chance to restore her marriage and her job?
Can you tell me ANYTHING at all that you DIDN'T read and draw conclusions from, on this forum?
Can you tell me that you witnessed ANY of the events that have been discussed?
Can you tell me that you have talked directly with ANY of the people involved?
If not, you have unbelievable audacity to DEMAND anything from the 3abn defenders. Same goes for the rest of you that answer no to these questions.

Don't have to; this is America...where one is innocent until proven guilty.

You are saying she's guilty... so the burden of proof is on you. Folk who said Tommy was guilty came out with evidence to support their claims If you are unwilling or unable to produce evidence to support your claim, that is your prerogative... but you will be weighed in the balanced and found wanting.

The bottom line is your behavior is not consistent with that of someone who has the truth on his side. Your unwillingness to support your claims with verifiable evidence only further entrenches that perception and a number of people have said the tipping point for them was your (plural) conduct and conversation and continued recalcitrance when asked to verify what you state...

The american way says you make the charge, it is incumbent upon you to make it stick.

You haven't done that to date... not even close.

In His service,
Mr. J

[Aletheia]

I'm certain you would characterize your job here, and the jobs of wwjd, Lee and Aletheia, to be to provide support for Danny's side of all of these issues. Am I correct? If I am, wouldn't it be a good place to show all of the lurkers, members, and those seeking truth in the matter what that "evidence" is so that they, those who have not chosen sides as yet, can come to the appropriate conclusion?

You must know that many folks are Googling for information since Danny has been so outspoken on the Live programs. Wouldn't it be prudent for them to get the full story instead of seeing only one side posting the evidence for their side?

Of course, if there really isn't any compelling "evidence" that could be posted to clearly show that Linda was following a sinful course, I suppose you all could just go on twisting statements, muddying the waters and attempting to divert the minds of those seeking truth. Wonder which course would be the most productive?

PB, are you deliberatly lying? I have said how many times, that I have never met Danny? I came here searching for the truth and asking questions, the answers led me to where I am now.

I'm quite sure it suits your purpose to try and make the readers here see all the people you disagree with, as you portray them, simply being blindly loyal and defending someone in a biased manner, but it's simply not true.

I am no prophet, but this I know. When the facts are made known by 3ABN, unless you are without a conscience, you are going to be a very embarassed and sad woman.

Why not just stop making the absolute statements and judgments which you yourself cannot prove, and practice building the patience of the saints, until that happens?

This forum is a good place to practice that. Turning the other cheek also...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 8 2007, 04:43 PM